[CLOSED PR] Removes jailbird and stowaway.

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

I hope you don't interpret my messages as aggressive I just don't get why ideas are being put out there all the time to scrap stuff we already have like stowaway which I've never seen anybody have a problem with ingame

[Kotlol]

I like Jailbird as a concept, but this is not the 1st topic to say: Remove it.

And I say the same thing, remove it.

As for stowaway, DO NOT TOUCH. Yes they cause annoyances with records and such.. but they are part of the anti meta and are a late join class wich I like.
Stowaway was changed for the better. Jailbird is just a lighter "Was it something I said" trait.

It's that simple. No need for this long topic. If anything Jailbird needs to be reworked into something else. If you have the trait, you have to play around being jailed.... like... ANOTHER JOB/CLASS like Stowaway.

[plastezayin]

why do developers always want to remove things from the game instead of adding things

yo, dipshit, i just added gravity. fuck outta here.

🥀

[Polydanx]

why do developers always want to remove things from the game instead of adding things

Removing bad features adds fun. Just constantly adding more and more useless or unfun features is called "feature bloat".

True, yeah. It’s best to cut out bloat and slop where we can especially when it’s anti-fun and goes unused 99% of the time, stuff like Zoldorf,gravity tether, jailbird, stowaway etc is best off out of the codebase when they don’t really contribute much and just be a constant dead weight on the game loop.. but that’s just my opinion  🤷‍♂️

[Raqio]

why do developers always want to remove things from the game instead of adding things

Removing bad features adds fun. Just constantly adding more and more useless or unfun features is called "feature bloat".

The ideas forum is not for being rude or aggressive to Developers and Contributors, but for providing constructive criticism and actionable feedback.

Sorry but I don't see how the initial post was rude or aggressive enough to warrant being called a dipshit, and not to mention the post directly before yours calling people who disagreed with another PR simple minded. The poster could have been more constructive but how can anyone be expected to give criticism when rudeness is what they get in response? There had to have been a less aggressive way to respond to this.

As for what I think on jailbird and stowaway, I love them both, they've provided a lot of fun experiences for me back when stowaway was a trait and I would be sad to see them go.

[bamlord]

Make stowaway random name and give them that grey jumpsuit that salvagers spawn wearing

[Lord_earthfire]

I hope you don't interpret my messages as aggressive I just don't get why ideas are being put out there all the time to scrap stuff we already have like stowaway which I've never seen anybody have a problem with ingame

The thing is, you may not seen it as a problematic thing, but the topic of jailbird comes up in the discord on a monthly cycle. People -have problems with it ingame-.

Most of these changes recently wouldnt be proposed if there wouldn't exist a faction of the playerbase that is unhappy with these parts of the game.

So, simply saying "noone asked for that, so don't" is 1. not constructive, and 2. just wrong.

Personally, i feel the problem with jailbird is our sec culture/space law. Off-station crime doesnt add much to the game when the penalty for murder on station is like 5 minutes of brig at most.

The only way i see to make that trait worthwhile to keep would require sone massive work on our sec/antag/non-antag crime relationship.

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

The thing is, you may not seen it as a problematic thing, but the topic of jailbird comes up in the discord on a monthly cycle. People -have problems with it ingame-.

Most of these changes recently wouldnt be proposed if there wouldn't exist a faction of the playerbase that is unhappy with these parts of the game.

So, simply saying "noone asked for that, so don't" is 1. not constructive, and 2. just wrong.

I don't know about jailbird but I was specifically pointing out that I cannot recall ever seeing players complain about the stowaway job ingame and I've seen plenty of people who enjoy playing it. 

maybe my feedback isn't constructive but I think that "I don't think players want this" is worth as much in a discussion as constructive feedback is because what point is there in changing the game in a way the active playerbase doesn't like

---

why do developers always want to remove things from the game instead of adding things

Removing bad features adds fun. Just constantly adding more and more useless or unfun features is called "feature bloat".

True, yeah. It’s best to cut out bloat and slop where we can especially when it’s anti-fun and goes unused 99% of the time, stuff like Zoldorf,gravity tether, jailbird, stowaway etc is best off out of the codebase when they don’t really contribute much and just be a constant dead weight on the game loop.. but that’s just my opinion  🤷‍♂️

also maybe it's veering offtopic but I'm genuinely curious as to what you think removing these would improve on the game or how it counts as bloat

I've checked through the files and maybe I'm missing something but the files for stuff like the gravity tether are a few KBs in size at most 

I might be alone in this opinion but I feel like the thing that makes ss13 great is the fact it has so many different items and moving parts inside it so removing old stuff that doesn't serve a massive purpose at best doesn't add much and at worst is probably gonna piss off some nerd who fondly regarded things like the gravity tether or other azone type of items 

unless I'm missing obvious sarcasm or something here in which case tell me I'm an idiot I guess

[Agent reburG]

why do developers always want to remove things from the game instead of adding things

Removing bad features adds fun. Just constantly adding more and more useless or unfun features is called "feature bloat".

The ideas forum is not for being rude or aggressive to Developers and Contributors, but for providing constructive criticism and actionable feedback.

The only "Based" answer here, good formal response. 

Also my salt grains weight also on the removal of it, it just encouraged people to be edgy "Unknown" annoyances to security while contribution to the station from said role being exactly zero.

[Frank_Stein]

Sometimes you just gotta take things out for the sake of artistic cohension

[Agent reburG]

Sometimes you just gotta take things out for the sake of artistic cohension

I hate how well this works as analogy, but yeah not everything can be a topping, especially at once.

[Zombie]

I don't know about the stowaway but jailbirds doing light to medium self-antagging are really grating. I really wish that trait would just be removed. Maybe roll it into stowaway latejoin job.
Why would NT hire people with priors anyway without first punishing them, if the trait was coupled with stowaway it would make much more sense as it is literally people on the run from Space Law

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

Sometimes you just gotta take things out for the sake of artistic cohension

but this is a masterpiece what needs to be removed from it

[Piesuu]

Jailbird in its current state should be removed completely.
We could re-implement jailbird in the future as a proper antag role, that starts as a stowaway with minor contraband and the goal of trying to merge with the crew without being caught by security.
That seems like a more reasonable and realistic idea + expectation.
It would be really nice if they got a random complement of specifically stealthy antag tools for blending in, we don't see those nearly often enough.