Remove all mentors

[Ikea]

Apologies for the clickbaity name, I couldn't help myself. I think by and large the current mentor system is fine, just an alternate suggestion I think could be a bit better. The main reason why mentors are application locked is because they have in round access alongside info, so what everyone could mentor and they just didn't have in round access?

Through a command while observing or a medass command, as long as you aren't in any rounds you can enter mentor mode, which lets you see and reply to mhelps. This probably has a roundlock. In order to use the medass command you need to have a linked account of course, and doing so grants you access to the mentor channels. Mentor mode prevents you from joining (not observing) any ongoing rounds and automatically sets dnr for any ongoing round. You can leave mentor mode the same way you came. Mentor mice may need to be reworked for this, maybe by removing their physical form and just have them directly hopping into peoples pockets from ghosts or something? 

Pros of this is now you have way more people able to help out with questions. Main cons are removing HoS sundays (possibly irrelevant if #25658 gets merged), likely less consistent answer quality, and administrative actions in the form of mentorbans. I've heard the current alt detection system is fairly robust but that may be a concern as well, or people having an alt discord account that they keep permanently mentored (this is potentially solvable by requiring you to be in game to go into mentor mode and blocking any joins from the same ip unless whitelisted or something). 2565

[Mikeistaken]

While I like the concept, mentors would still likely be used, as mentors are allowed to play the game while assisting players, as the admins trust those with the mentor role to not act on any info they've gained from mentor helps. so it wont outright remove mentors as people could still likely apply for a mentor role to be allowed to do that. unless the admins decide you cant play the round and help other players at the same time anymore.

[Chasu]

I don't see how this is necessary. Ingame, we can already see mentorhelps as they come. It's against the mentor rules to use information gained from mhelps to change the round. We can mentormouse at any time whie dead. Why have either only playing or mentoring when we already have both?

Ohhh you meant as in fully removing the whitelist?
Hmmmmmmm

[Ikea]

unless the admins decide you cant play the round and help other players at the same time anymore.

Being able to play the round and receive mhelps would be removed for what I'm proposing to clarify. In my non mentor experience most mhelps are answered from discord. I don't think this would lead to a significant decrease in mhelps answered from this and since (again not a mentor) I think being in round doesn't give that much more context compared to observing there's not a meaningful quality dip either so having an application specifically for this likely wouldn't be too helpful.

[jan.antilles]

Being a mentor is more than just answering ahelps. I wouldn't support this.

Edit: to clarify. Mentors do answer mhelps and it's a super great system. But we also ask mentors to be good examples to the rest of the community, and to demonstrate the kinds of behavior that others can look up to and learn from. That trust matters, and it's not something unlocked by just having a lot of playtime.

[Mikeistaken]

unless the admins decide you cant play the round and help other players at the same time anymore.

In my non mentor experience most mhelps are answered from discord. I don't think this would lead to a significant decrease in mhelps answered

Ill add some clarity on this, While Mhelps can be answered both in-game and on the discord, some mentors opt to use the discord cause it feels easier (me I'm one of them, 2 monitors allows me to see Mhelps from all servers and not just the server im playing in) and also in addition we get more freedom to answer Mhelps on the discord, like easier viewing of past Mhelps and the ability to discuss with other mentors on whats the best thing to say in a scenario if we are unsure.

TLDR: Easier past Mhelp response, communicating with mentors for more obscure questions, the ability to play on a server while answering mhelps for other servers while you play 

and since (again not a mentor) I think being in round doesn't give that much more context compared to something like observing the vast majority of the time still having an application specifically for this wouldn't be too helpful

People often Mhelp with details regarding their current antag status, as well as their character name so if you arnt disciplined when playing you may just act on it, especially if your playing a security officer while what you propose will likely stop it, players would likely feel less comfortable Mhelping knowing that the average player could likely see it, and find a bypass around to act on it

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All in all, while a good concept im not on board, too many things could go wrong, and we already have the #ss13-questions channel for people who want to help each other. Or alternitivly, talk to each other! If you see another player struggling while your playing act on it! there are ways to help players without having access to mentor tools

[Ikea]

But we also ask mentors to be good examples to the rest of the community, and to demonstrate the kinds of behavior that others can look up to and learn from. 

In my personal opinion, having a system where admins have to give the stamp of approval is what requires mentors to serve as goonstation representatives instead of goonstation reps being needed to be good at answering questions and from my personal subjective non admin/mentor view that is the primary goal of this system. Having generally good and chill people stick out more from crowd for discord/OOC could give them more weight and help calm things down when conversations and the like get hot or promote more good behavior in general, but my gut tells me this isn't super meaningful in practice for non mentor adjacent things.

[UrsulaMejor]

You don't have to be a mentor to mentor people. You have every tool available to you to be nice to newbies inside the game.

[Kotlol]

You don't have to be a mentor to mentor people. You have every tool available to you to be nice to newbies inside the game.

I am not a mentor and i have been helping newbies without it. I don't apply for mentor since I play very loose and casually and still don't know every ins and outs of the game. If I see a newbie struggling, I help em.

As Ursula said.. No need for us to have mentor abillities. Let mentors be mentors.

[GARGATHUGANOKSREVENG]

i agree with the title

[Bilo216]

My reading is that this overcomplicates a system that already doesnt have much issue to begin with, and the patch of deactivating mentor status to play kinda works halfway- you can, for example, see a recent mentorhelp about a salvager asking how to do salvager stuff, and then de-mentor and join with the metaknowledge its a salvie round. You could do nothing about it. Or you could go and select secoff, borg or whatever else and prepare, or already be expecting salvager action. Take into account that is now every player with a linked discord account. And the fact that it would be difficult to notice this, even as an admin. Could have been a coincidence. Or not! Could be malicious, or as it has been talked about recently concerning other metagaming issues, not even intentional or with the realization that its metagaming, and go unreported. And now apply that possibility to a good chunk of the pop in a round.
Basically, I dont think this would have a positive impact on metagaming, and the current mentor system works just fine.