make AI roguing slightly harder/unroguing easier

[Kotomata]

to rogue AI: break in when no one is looking, grab onehuman, slot it in (you can rest under the stun turret projectiles and asiimov AI wont put them on lethal!)
to de-rogue AI: slip past the several antagonists that are running around (one of them rogued the AI after all!), break into a bolted/walled/acid/chembombed/plasmafired upload (AI is 100% watching the upload now that they're rogue), set up walls/barriers to block heavy lasers, presumably kill multiple borgs and shells as they break your action bars to deweld and unscrewdriver the rogue module(s), oh and make sure the AI doesn't depower the lawrack.....
(honorary mention: you can always nuke the lawrack and build a new one but thats kinda griefy or you use the law linker which no one knows exists and is annoying to get + doesnt fix the AI)

this is pretty obviously a big imbalance, and as a result it tends to be much easier to just kill all silicons whenever the AI gets rogued as opposed to actually fixing the lawrack which sucks bc a bunch of players are getting permakilled because a funny guy clicked the module on the lawrack in 0.5 seconds

my proposal is either:
1. laws shouldn't activate until they are welded and screwdrivered, AND you should get an alert whenever someone enters the upload
this should at the very least make it as difficult to rogue the AI as it is to unrogue it, which would make things more balanced and probably make roguing the AI more interesting
of course, this does mean that it's much harder to subvert the AI stealthily, but thats up 2 you if you think thats bad or not

2. make the AI easier to unrogue.... somehow
i dont really have good ideas for this because making it easier to unrogue makes it easier to rogue to begin with and that's kind of bad
maybe just make it so you can't welder/screwdriver non-green modules? that would balance it out at least (though its a little weird)
or make it so stun turrets hit you while lying down but idk about that one its kinda evil

[RSOD]

i think everything is fine as is. i don't really see a reason to nerf going for the AI as it is something you have to go out of your way to do, and if anyone is aware of you trying to break into the chamber, pulling it off becomes incredibly hard -- having the AI be notified automatically when upload has someone sounds annoying. and we have viewports already anyways
the AI has bolted doors, a plasmafire and lethals in their chamber? take down the rwalls with an RCD, tank the fire with a heavy firesuit and use CE's aurora belt to reduce laser damage while you make walls around you.
it's not something impossible, but you may have been approaching it wrong. antagonists / silicons can't interfere either if you bring sec along

[Lord_earthfire]

I think rogueing AI is fine as is. I honestly even think AI Uploads are too fortified and could be made less safe.

However, i think unrogueing against lethal turrets is a problem. The AI turrets in my opinion need more ways to be disabled. Let me melee them with a fire extingiisher or something.

Guns are a bit too rare among crew to get turrets down in case of a rogued AI.

[Kotlol]

I think rogueing AI is fine as is. I honestly even think AI Uploads are too fortified and could be made less safe.

However, i think unrogueing against lethal turrets is a problem. The AI turrets in my opinion need more ways to be disabled. Let me melee them with a fire extingiisher or something.

Guns are a bit too rare among crew to get turrets down in case of a rogued AI.

I agree with this.
And if you feel like the turrets need to be improved.. don't.
The best we can add is an alarm to the AI that "someone" has hit the floor in their upload room/core.

But otherwise no. Then again.. turrests can be worked around using the locker methode.

[Emimiyu]

But otherwise no. Then again.. turrests can be worked around using the locker methode.

Iirc locker methode got nerfed. Locker can be broken with AI turret, now

[Kotomata]

i think everything is fine as is. i don't really see a reason to nerf going for the AI as it is something you have to go out of your way to do, and if anyone is aware of you trying to break into the chamber, pulling it off becomes incredibly hard -- having the AI be notified automatically when upload has someone sounds annoying. and we have viewports already anyways
the AI has bolted doors, a plasmafire and lethals in their chamber? take down the rwalls with an RCD, tank the fire with a heavy firesuit and use CE's aurora belt to reduce laser damage while you make walls around you.
it's not something impossible, but you may have been approaching it wrong. antagonists / silicons can't interfere either if you bring sec along

obviously you can fix rogue AIs even when they're fortified, that isn't the point
my opinion is that either subverting the AI should require more effort for the bonus it gives you (at no cost of antag power points)
OR it should be easier to de-subvert the lawrack, to lessen the difficulty gap between subversion and de-subversion, and to make the alternative, less fun option of killing all silicons forever* less appealing

also i should have mentioned but this is very much a classic-oriented balance post, i have no frame of reference for how AI subversion works out on RP rounds but I imagine it's much less of an issue thanks to the roleplay rules, higher pop, and lower high-impact antag count

*yes, you can make a new lawrack and use the linker, but that's not super common knowledge + still more effort than killing them + I don't want to write a massive paragraph detailing all of the ways it can fail/be impeded

[Kotlol]

Another small idea would be a new tool that can be used and thought around for subsuming AI.

A tool that can temporarely shut down all AI/borgs for 20 seconds as a remote, but... it has a 15 min cooldown.
The idea is you would use it if the AI is rogued and you gotta pause em for a few seconds.

But in the hands of an antagonist it can be used for an escape.
Not replicatable. Maybe the captain or security has it. (I think security armory is the best spot)

But this is a far too powerful concept and I do not want it, but this is an IDEA to help with AI roguing without straight up being a 1 to 1 buff.

[Taylorstar]

I'm curious what people think about if the laws could be changed while the law room was depowered. If someones in the room with the means to break the apc they probably have the means to change the laws. When silicons set up all those barricades or walls of glass that turrets can shoot through, it becomes one of the biggest challenges to deal with, removing the Turrets is a huge game changer in unroguing. But if i'm honest for the most part dealing with Rogue AIs feels really balanced, if you catch it early and there aren't enough cyborgs who were clever enough to destroy the robotics control console before anyone realized.

Oh one more thing there should be backups of the Robotics control motherboard somewhere, whether its the MD or RD or whoever has it, even if there was one in technical storage should give people options should borgs go rogue and did destroy one motherboard. So many people overlook the killswitch approach to dealing with rogue borgs or hesitate to do so.

[JORJ949]

I'm curious what people think about if the laws could be changed while the law room was depowered. 

You can upload laws while the rack is depowered, you just cannot remove them. This means that for some rogue laws you can upload a law that overrides the rogue law.