[CLOSED PR] Add Flavor Text to Cyborgs

[github_bot]

PULL REQUEST DETAILS




[SILICONS] [INPUT WANTED]
About the PR
Adds a "Description" field to docking stations, changeable by both the Silicon inside, and people outside, same as its name. This field is bound by the same length and checks as a human's flavor text field. (aka, it can be up to 256 characters).
Does not add this field, or the option to change it, to Eyebots, AIs, or unfortunate Carbons inside the docking station.
Why's this needed?
Flavour text on Silicons is a request I've seen floating around for quite some time. I think it really adds to the roleplay potential of cyborg players, the same way a human's flavor text does.
Testing
https://github.com/user-attachments/asse...46e875e09f



Tested with no text, minimal text, maximum text. As a cyborg, AI shell, Eyebot and a Carbon inside the station.



Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)sunnyaries
(*)Added a flavour text field for Cyborgs, accessible from Docking Stations.

PULL REQUEST DETAILS

[Cropsey]

I get that this is very much entrenched in a feature some people want but it has been decided will never happen, but I'd like to at least see borgs having easier accesible pronouns if they don't get flavour text (which apparently they won't)- the pronouns overlay is TINY and damn near impossible to see.

[jan.antilles]

As said when this came up in RP chat, a block of custom flavor text has nothing to do with pronoun visibility, and it would be very easy to make cyborg pronouns visible as part of their existing examine text.

The reasoning for this PR being closed were given multiple times by devs before the PR was opened, and are summarized in a comment left on the PR itself by Leah.

[Edit: a PR just went up to make the pronouns visible on examine. Thanks RubberRats! #23922]

[Torchwick]

I was excited to give input on how nice this would be as a QOL thing for cyborg RP people who want to add a little something to their flavourtext, but I see it was shot down near instantly with no room for discussion. This, to me, feels on the level of 'lizards can't have hair' in which the eventual change didn't really effect anyone that didn't want this, but was exciting for those that enjoy customization. What about when players use that automaton skin for their cyborgs? I don't really see how the cyborg suddenly morphing to have a completely different visible exterior to what was originally built is fine, but optionally writing your own bit of flavourtext isn't.

Unfortunately it just feels like opposing opinions on this subject won't matter at all due to how fast it was shut down. There's a lot of suspension of disbelief to have in this silly game, and I just think it's sad that cyborg flavour text is too far over the line. I dunno. It feels like a non-issue and a highly optional thing that could have been nice for those that want to use it, and inconsequential for those that don't.

I don't typically enjoy giving negative feedback to finalized choices like this, but it's disappointing to see how fast it was turned down. I might just be missing the bigger picture here, but it feels like such a small change that would be nice for description enjoyers.

[LeahTheTech]

For small things like this that just aren't going to be added, I'd much rather be honest about it up front and close the PR immediately rather than leaving it open for a week for people to argue over and then close it regardless.

Lizard hair was definitely a controversy we generally didn't handle well, but I don't think is comparable. We're not trying to say "we shouldn't add this now, we should wait and add this other thing instead" and then never doing the other thing, we're just saying that this particular feature in isolation isn't being added for the reasons outlined.

[JORJ949]

What about when players use that automaton skin for their cyborgs? I don't really see how the cyborg suddenly morphing to have a completely different visible exterior to what was originally built is fine, but optionally writing your own bit of flavourtext isn't.

AI Core skins have specific descriptions, wouldn't be too hard to have the automaton skin do the same to add a bit of flavor text specific to the automaton skin.

[Torchwick]

What about when players use that automaton skin for their cyborgs? I don't really see how the cyborg suddenly morphing to have a completely different visible exterior to what was originally built is fine, but optionally writing your own bit of flavourtext isn't.

AI Core skins have specific descriptions, wouldn't be too hard to have the automaton skin do the same to add a bit of flavor text specific to the automaton skin.

I mean I guess so! But my point here is that you as the roboticist are not putting together a cyborg with those parts. They change into that after. Given part of the reason for denial was that a roboticist is printing specific parts from a fabricator and how it would be weird for the cyborg's description to change after the fact, I don't see how that's any different from a realism standpoint to changing an optional description to say something custom you know? Idk, I just don't get it personally. That's just my opinion on it anyhow

[Tessellation]

I know this won't be added, but it's kinda odd to me that it's fine to make your flavor text whatever you want as a human: "She has 6 arms and snakes for hair," but the same suspension of disbelief is not extended to borgs. 
I can kind of understand the reasoning that a roboticist might feel odd that their creation's flavor text isn't exactly how they built the borg. Still, the cyborg dock is fully capable of adding little hats, wigs, and paint jobs to the borg that the roboticist has no say in. So why can't it do a bit of detailing? It's fun flavor! 

I also disagree that human sprites are somehow vastly different than silicon sprites in terms of expressing visual identity. Just as a human sprite can't convey a tattoo on your neck, a silicon sprite isn't flexible enough to display the number 7 painted on the side of your screenhead. 

It's unfortunate that it won't be added! 

[Lord_earthfire]

I know this won't be added, but it's kinda odd to me that it's fine to make your flavor text whatever you want as a human: "She has 6 arms and snakes for hair," but the same suspension of disbelief is not extended to borgs. 

Im not sure if that's handled by the rules, bit if i would read such an examine text ingame on the RP server, i feel like i should ahelp it.

[Danger Noodle]

The immediate and utter refusal of it is sad to see. I agree a lot with many of the other points voiced in the thread. The impact such a change would have is vastly overstated, the pushback is honestly disappointing.

[FireKestrel]

I don't agree with the reasoning for the PR being closed at all. Humans have parts that are just as interchangeable as silicon parts, and I've seen plenty of characters who have flavour text that mention their arms, legs, eyes- all things that can be modified in round by the same "standard parts" silicons are built from. Why should silicons be treated any differently?

[The Panna]

Heya

Just to be clear I find little issue with the decision to close the PR.
I just found the explanation given that is found on the PR to be genuinely confusing and I would quite like to hear another explanation on this decision.

Feel free to not answer since I suspect you lot have given the answer many, many times before.

Thank you

[Agent reburG]

I really don't get why this one was closed so quickly, it would just be a flavor text, 90℅ wouldn't even see, which maybe breaks their emersion?

[Chasu]

I get that borgs want to be unique and have their own blorbo thing going, too, BUT: When you choose to play borg, you choose the disadvantages and benefits that come with it. On one hand, you get all access, an unique law system, lots of tools, speed, and robustness. On the other, you‘re a normal-ass robot and have to abide by the laws no matter what. Especially the former drawback is what‘s relevant here. You choose to have a somewhat-standardized appearance. It‘s one of the things that distinguishes borgs from humans, and with the line between them shrinking more and more recently (see borgs asking humans to buy them clothes), I don‘t think we should let borgs have even more human-typical features. However, I do agree with Torchwick‘s point on the automaton skin reward, changing ones whole appearance instantly without any other changes (such as the descriptions that AI cores have) is nonsensical.

[Solenoid]

When you choose to play borg, you choose the disadvantages and benefits that come with it. On one hand, you get all access, an unique law system, lots of tools, speed, and robustness. On the other, you‘re a normal-ass robot and have to abide by the laws no matter what. 

This basically explains why I'm fine with this PR being closed in the most succinct way possible. As a borg, regardless of the player behind the screen being a unique person, and regardless of any humanlike quirks, you are replaceable and completely interchangeable. There's a reason your brain can be shoved into any other borg shell, you are a robot whose entire life has been standardized.

When you want to play a borg, you are choosing to play a bog standard robot that could be replaced at any moment in time, and while that robot may have personality quirks, or their own thoughts from time to time, they are not going to have any sort of round to round physical continuity. This is reflected by how every cyborg always starts as a light cyborg in Robotics. The mind carries over, the body doesn't, and considering the fact that the body/physical characteristics are what Flavor Text is meant to describe, I don't see a real sensible way to implement flavor text with that in mind. You can have your own lore about why your borg always looks the same, or how they look out of shifts, but with how borgs are implemented currently, flavor text is just not consistent with them in my opinion.

I think that borg players deserve the chance to customize themselves as much as anyone else, but realistically, and perhaps controversially, my answer to this is "If you want flavor text, play a non-borg character". In the same way that my answer to mutantrace players wanting hair back when that was a big debate was "If you want hair, play a human or take the bald trait". I really think people should be willing to branch out more in terms of who they play(ie. humans, mutantraces, silicons, etc.), and by letting everyone do everything, you remove any incentives to do so while creating logical inconsistencies. No, this game does not need to be realistic, but I think there's a point where I can not suspend by disbelief and this begins to cross that point.

I don't want this to come across as mean-spirited to borg players, and I have nothing against them for wanting flavor text, but I think it's best that it isn't added, for everything I discussed above.