Make farts and oxygen agent b more accessible

[Chomusuke]

With constructible atmos Ive been back in toxins for quite some time now.
Toxins is now actually viable for high temp burns although the setup I am using does not depend on much in toxins.

The limiting factor now are time and access to gas.

Oxygen can be ordered infinitely and plasma is generally present in more then sufficient quantities but those alone are not enough to keep a burn alive.
To keep the burn from dying you want to use farts or oxygen agent b.

Farts have been added to the QM rotation as part of Buffords trades.
The issue here is that this is not a guaranteed trader. With the time it takes for the market to reroll you might go a substantially long time without access to farts stopping you from even starting a burn.
The alternative is F. I did spend multiple hours pressing the same button over and over and over now. Even with the help of 2-3 people it does take 5-10 minutes of farting to get a quantity that is enough to keep the burn going for some time. At least this way you can start the burn and keep farming farts while the burn is ongoing BUT obviously this is straining and painful over time.

Oxygen agent b I havent done much testing with but it is possible to extract the agent b using vent scrubbers now and isolate it.
Due to the low quantity of roundstart molitz beta I havent been able to test if its meaningful in the burn.
Acquiring more molitz beta is directly tied to mining. No mining no molitz.
Mining yourself is an issue if you have to build an entire burn setup on top of the ~45 minute burn and not feasible in a classic round.

To combat the issue of RNG / button spam and have it be feasible to actually experiment with burns Id like to see more ways of acquiring the aforementioned gasses.
Toxins should probably start off with an entire or even just half full methane canister.

I dont think oxygen agent b should be directly accessible and some effort to extract it should persist but having a more reliable way of obtaining molitz beta through a dedicated trading interface in science would be nice.
Toxins now has a way to actually make money by blowing stuff up so let us use the money to buy canisters of methane and pieces of molitz beta directly.
The trading interface could include a limited set of ores used to extract gasses such as plasmastone, molitz, molitz beta, char and cerenkite (that can be used to make fallout right?) and run off a dedicated toxins budget for which you need to make money using the explosive power of different bombs.

If there are alternatives especially around the oxygen agent b feel free to share them.

[TDHooligan]

alternatives to mining would be great - though interacting with mining should always be easier than the alternative.

perhaps a chemical market could bridge a lot of science's existing gaps. Pay in chemicals, get resources, get more people in chemistry.

[Lefinch]

We had a change to our froggy friend and the methane that made it more common. I'm open to the concept of expanding on it, fart can for toxins sounds thematically right too and you're right in that having access to it early helps with the setup. The fartscrub method is funny but fundamentally not a "fun" gaming experience

I'm less enthused at the idea of making molitz b just something to obtain because honestly getting a few molitz rocks from mining isn't to my (again personal, others might disagree and that's good to hear out too) experience very hard at all, and circumventing it just takes away from that interaction with mining. No mining? The asteroid field usually yields some if breaking into the outpost magnet/getting a hop multijob approval/getting a Borg to get some isnt an option. Molitz rocks are immediately available as random magnet pulls, optional bonus pulls, and natively in the field or trench. Usually ballpark figures for the amount needed has ranged from 30 to 100 depending on what the engineer was trying to do. Sounds like a lot but anecdotally that's four or five molitz rocks and not needed all at once if it's being fed in. That's a productive relationship between engineering and mining to me.

But there's a side thing here wherein I feel, and this is a personal opinion not something I'm arguing should be the only view that going for big TEG numbers is not a mandatory every round experience but mostly a confluence of favourable events: you have the right team on. Chemistry is on the ball and happy to provide some graphite and lube. mining is engaged and grabbing some good reinforcement materials and that molitz is flowing in, you have a good couple of engineers on so let's make it the round goal. The engine does not need to do this every time, there are other engineering tasks or goals if that's not how the round is going and I say that as a TEG goblin.

Sometimes it's not going to be the round which to me is what makes it sweeter when it is: because it's a team effort and at the end you get to enjoy it with the team, possibly by vending monkeys to toss into the ptl laser. Just my take on it there though.

Further: the engine can be run in furnace mode if there's a delay gathering initial materials. It'll lose some big final total power generated to not have it all instantly available while it's mined up sure but that's time to get other things in order. The methane can is a bit spottier and we don't have a job role for "farter" that people like doing but we do have a lot of miner players. If it's low pop then I would expect, at least myself that there's likely going to be station demands for the few engineers available. It's not normally a role that lacks for things to do, and if it's a round where there isn't that happening: all the more excuse to get out and mine.

[Frank_Stein]

Farts have been added to the QM rotation as part of Buffords trades.
The issue here is that this is not a guaranteed trader. With the time it takes for the market to reroll you might go a substantially long time without access to farts stopping you from even starting a burn.
The alternative is F. I did spend multiple hours pressing the same button over and over and over now. Even with the help of 2-3 people it does take 5-10 minutes of farting to get a quantity that is enough to keep the burn going for some time. At least this way you can start the burn and keep farming farts while the burn is ongoing BUT obviously this is straining and painful over time.

Maybe certain foods should make you extra gassy and be more productive to reduce spamming? Get some beans from botany & have the chef whip you up some bean dip or something.

[Kotlol]

Maybe certain foods should make you extra gassy and be more productive to reduce spamming? Get some beans from botany & have the chef whip you up some bean dip or something.

I SAID THIS SO MANY TIMES!

[Kateaclysm]

Farts have been added to the QM rotation as part of Buffords trades.
The issue here is that this is not a guaranteed trader. With the time it takes for the market to reroll you might go a substantially long time without access to farts stopping you from even starting a burn.
The alternative is F. I did spend multiple hours pressing the same button over and over and over now. Even with the help of 2-3 people it does take 5-10 minutes of farting to get a quantity that is enough to keep the burn going for some time. At least this way you can start the burn and keep farming farts while the burn is ongoing BUT obviously this is straining and painful over time.

Maybe certain foods should make you extra gassy and be more productive to reduce spamming? Get some beans from botany & have the chef whip you up some bean dip or something.

Genes like superfart should absolutely give you like, quintuple the amount of gas in a single fart, too.

[RubberRats]

Maybe certain foods should make you extra gassy and be more productive to reduce spamming? Get some beans from botany & have the chef whip you up some bean dip or something.

Funnily enough, there's already something like this in the game. Reagents like eggs, beans, and fartonium increase the quantity of gas released per fart. Back around 2021-ish part of the meta for doing pipeburns fast was having one of the engineers go get buttburgers to speed the process along. No clue why people stopped doing it for fart harvesting. Maybe if a few more reagents were added to the list?

[Chomusuke]

Boosting the fart output by chems, food and genes sounds good.
Id like to see this in addition to other solutions tho since it does not fix the issue that the game play would boil down to press F a bunch potentially for minutes.

[Chomusuke]

For now Ill PR a fart canister to the in rotation maps. Feedback on the toxins layout would be appreciated.
(Note that the images show a different sprite then the regular green cans because I messed around locally. They will all be the regular green you are used to)

Atlas:
Moves the top left empty canister onto the 2 way connector and places puts a fart can in its place.
https://imgur.com/a/qq2NZjk

Clarion:
Replaces the bottom left canister of oxygen with farts.
https://imgur.com/a/OrIm2J4

Cog1:
Adds the farts below the purge valve.
https://imgur.com/a/EJNs0f1

Cog2:
Replaced the bottom right CO2 with a fart can.
https://imgur.com/a/2DDi8eg

Donut2:
Moved the N2 cans to the right and put the farts in the top left.
Yes this one is meant to be somewhat of a pain to get out. You will have to move several cans out of or around the gas storage.
https://imgur.com/a/erJ3yeY

Donut3:
Given the existing compartments for the other types of cans I just put it by the purge valve.
https://imgur.com/a/TxpdbaB

Kondaru:
Moved the right column of oxygen cans up and put the farts in the bottom right corner.
https://imgur.com/a/jjy1Vfa

Nadir:
Nadir is not a plasma research station and does not have a traditional toxins but it is possible to create burns on it especially with constructible atmos.
Given that its not officially designed to handle burns I hid the can behind an already existing hidden wall near engineering.
I am considering to add an empty tank and mask or a destroyed air scrubber to it for a little bit of story but I am unsure on that
https://imgur.com/a/3VsYvUN

Oshan:
Moved the CO2 to the N2.
Shifted empty cans and farts to the right.
https://imgur.com/a/NgTgrDX

[Lefinch]

really appreciate this! Those all make sense, god knows how anyone finds space in Atlas' engine cabin to put anything.
It's a real bodge and I'm happy if it feels like it's too inconsistent but donut 2: I argue a case for actually putting a can in gas storage.

cons:
- Inconsistent with everywhere else.
- Just inverts the problem for toxins.
- It makes me long/tremble in fear of a fart storage tank.

Pro:
- Shuttle rides
- Plenty of space in gas storage
- look okay I just like gas storage.

[Lord_earthfire]

Really, really not a fan of making them effortless available. They are meant to be gates for ludicrious hot burns.

While i think farts are now sufficiently available via cargo, agent b could be made slightly easier (e.g. requiring cold plasma instead of burning hot one, so it doesn'tinstantly burn away). Molitz b is plentyfull avaiable.

[Shiiba]

My first forum post was forever ago and forgotten by me but botany can make synthbutt plants, they toot but they don't actually release any farts, so could be something Always love ideas that get departments to work together.

[Chomusuke]

I argue a case for actually putting a can in gas storage.

I like the idea especially adding a gas tank (rest in peace that one oxygen agent b gas tank) but it would need mapping changes that far exceed what I can do to fit another gas tank in there and make it look good.
The only issues I have is the inconsistencies that you mentioned and that iIts an engineering area and farts are not used by engineering in singulos.

Really, really not a fan of making  them effortless available. They are meant to be gates for ludicrious hot burns.

While i think farts are now sufficiently available via cargo, agent b could be made slightly easier (e.g. requiring cold plasma instead of burning hot one, so it doesn'tinstantly burn away). Molitz b is plentyfull avaiable.

Right now what gates farts is RNG or pressing F. Both are not fun and can take a lot of time.
Even if we simply boost the fart output the gameplay element of "keep pressing F until you have enough or the market rolled for the gas whatever happens first" will remain.
As for molitz so far my testing with constructible atmos (on low pop classic) is that extracting a little oxygen agent b is not the hard part. Rather it is having mining get molitz beta at all.
Testing with atmos is pretty tough since the two gasses that make any burn possible are time sinks in off themselves and you generally get one shot per round if at all and there is no immediately visible results unless you royally screwed up.

My first forum post was forever again and forgotten by me but botany can make synthbutt plants, they toot but they don't actually release any farts, so could be something Always love ideas that get departments to work together.

As an improvised / alternative way of making farts I really like it. It would probably be limited to synthbutts on the floor to prevent all sorts of issues but it should be possible to work with that limitation.

[freedo5]

My first forum post was forever again and forgotten by me but botany can make synthbutt plants, they toot but they don't actually release any farts, so could be something Always love ideas that get departments to work together.

Would be fun, maybe having it happen on harvest with a funny sound.

[444explorer]

What if we separated the fart emote/name from the gas. It'd take a lot of effort but honestly none of the methods of getting them currently aren't all that interesting in my opinion.