Please Save Us Captain Stowaway!

[BioFrequency]

Title Aside.....

Over the last 2 days of this weekend I have been experiencing an unusually large number of instances of Stowaways breaking into the Captains office to steal the Spare Id. 

Frankly - I think the behavior is inappropriate for a Role Play settings (Good 3 and 4 specifically). Not just from the theft of the ID - but also the investigation conducted to find out WHO did it - and then the eventual goose chase to catch and stop them.... 

Has anyone else experienced this? What are your thoughts regarding it? And, assuming you're working Security - what punishment would you levy against the Stowaway?

[Kateaclysm]

Stowaways have always been a bit of an iffy role for me on RP. Dealing with most of them is fine, it's simple to approach them and scan them into the system at the very least... but it quickly becomes more of an annoyance when the person in question decides to take the role as a license to self-antag. I can't say I'd blame newer players for thinking that they're supposed to be playing a shady character and committing illegal acts, since that's what a stowaway tends to be! But it's one of those things that really seems to encourage towing the line with our non-antag policies, and directly contradicts the "act as if you want to keep your job" guidelines. Don't get me wrong - I'm really glad it's not a trait anymore, but making it a job didn't really "fix" the issue either. Ultimately it's down to Ahelping the behaviour and hoping they learn their lesson, but I do wish we could give stowaways a chat-log warning that they're not an antagonist, or something like that.

To answer your question, if the stowaway steals the spare, I'd likely get them a proper ID and scan-in to the system while they are in custody, and brig them for good measure. Tracking implants could be included if they've caused significant problems... In addition to the ahelp, of course.

[klushy225]

I feel like the 'act like you want to keep your job policy' wouldn't apply to a stowaway, as they're not employees. I like the stowaways, but clearer rules around them would be welcome.

[Lefinch]

Pretty much what Klushy said, but I'd also add that if you're spotting a pattern of similar behaviour over and over in a short timeframe that to me smells a bit of "One person, or small group of people who are driving a concept into the ground" and, again personally, would ahelp that going "hey just so you know this is cropping up a lot recently"

It might be confirmation bias or just bad luck, but if suddenly upticks without any recent changes that explain it, I think it'd be worth at least a quick check to see if it's "one guy who just needs a polite reminder not to be a one-trick pony" or, perhaps more unfortunately "Don't use the potential mechanics of something in a meta way"

Now if we get weeks of it, or its lots and lots of people doing it that to me would suggest we need stronger clarification on where the line is for stowaways. Or if this is a pattern that repeatly emerges over a period of time too. One guy is one guy, but if we keep getting people falling into the funnel of bad behaviour then that's a hole to plug.

I say all this while actually agreeing that stowaways conceptually are clearly not supposed to be remotely antagonistic, and at best are just guys hitching a ride to a station for various reasons, maybe bad maybe good but primarily -PROBABLY DO NOT WANT TO DRAW TOO MUCH ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES- or else the role would probably be better called "Gatecrasher" or "Infiltrator"

Not many folklore stories out there of stowaway kids beelining it to the bridge of a ship, putting on the captain's hat and telling the crew "they're the captain now" It's more about getting caught pinching stuff from the pantry or the classic "Stowaway gets recruited into the crew proper after being found"

[Silent Majority]

I believe the 'act like you want to keep your job' to a stoway is 'act like you don't want to be thrown out'.

[Lefinch]

That would make most sense. After all, you stowed away. One assumes you a) want to be here and b) don't want to be kicked out. Even if you're not working there.

[jan.antilles]

Yep, I've seen this pop up in ahelps, and I hope it keeps getting ahelped when it happens.

To quote the effortpost I made a while ago:

"But what about Stowaway?" If you are a stowaway, you presumably do not want NT to throw you off the station for using up the air and facilities and contributing nothing. The trait, like Jailbird, offers you interesting potential roleplay opportunities, but if all you do is harass Security and other employees, you're breaking RP rule 1.

This pre-dates Stowaway being a latejoin role and not a trait, but it still works, I think. Stowaway is an opportunity to roleplay a fish-out-of-water scenario and either deal with not having ID/access, or seek them out at the HoP and jump through whatever hoops of explanations and paperwork they have for you.

Breaking into the Captain's office for the spare ID and leading Sec on a merry chase and causing problems for the rest of the round crosses the line into self-antagging. Ahelp it when you see it so that we can make sure players know.

---

Adding on with more of my personal opinion: at the core of "act like you want to keep your job" is the goal of "don't break the setting." The baseline setting is that all the characters are coworkers on a space station, and then Things Happen. Antags, disasters, you name it. But ideally those are coming from the antagonists or the environment (ie disasters), and not from people who take their role as an excuse to cause chaos in a way that doesn't make sense in the baseline setting of "we are coworkers on a space station." Misunderstandings and scenarios happen, and so do things like "oh that was artbomb," but that's different from self-antagging.

[Kotlol]

There is a reason we removed "Miscreants" since
A: People want to be miscreants regardless of roles.
B: Miscreants always borderline self antagging.
C: We have the clown for that too.

Stowaways is more unique as someone who wants to avoid being caught, but having to do things to survive.

Simply change the blurb to: "You are NOT an antagonist, you simply have to survive and stay on the station all shift."
Maybe add a few unique mechanics like: "if you do not eat, you will start taking damage."
Forcing them out of their hiding spots to scrounge food.

Eitherway their job should be simple:
"Stay on the station without catching attention."
If it means you gotta sign up for labor with the HoP. So be it.
Or if it means avoiding security at all costs...go for it.

[Solenoid]

For every bad stowaway experience I've had, I've had a breadth of good ones. I personally don't see self-antagging stowaways that often, and the amount I see them is often consistent with general self-antaggy behavior on the RP servers. Maybe we could put stowaway behind a certain number of rounds played, or display a popup upon joining as a stowaway explaining the role if this behavior continues to be too prevalent.

[Emrsnn]

Frankly, I don't get why stealing the spare should be deemed an issue for moderation if they're not using it to self-antag. If you just think it'd be funny to send an announcement out like "This is The Real Captain letting you know I park like a jackass. Just straight-up moron shit. I'm talking four spaces at a 45 degree angle.", I see that as a strictly IC problem. Granted, I'm saying this as someone who always leaves the spare where it is because it's easily accessible for a reason- and as someone who stole it something around weekly back when I exclusively played staffie. Using it to covertly fill the brig with birds? IC issue. Using it to blow up the brig? ahelp. Even if you're not sure if they're actually a latejoin antag or not, it can still be an ahelp. Our admins are fast, it takes them two seconds to check if someone is an antag.