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12-05-2024, 04:51 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2024, 09:59 PM by github_bot. Edited 4 times in total.)
PULL REQUEST DETAILS
About the PR
[INPUT WANTED] [CONTROVERSIAL]
Uses the sprite made by what7431 from the Chaplain Additions project and renames bibles to the sacred texts, both internally and externally.
Why's this needed?
Puts the bible in a more religiously neutral position in regards to irl religions.
Changelog
Code: changelog
(u)Cheekybrdy
(*)Bibles are now called the Sacred Texts and have a religiously neutral icon. Sprite by what 7431.
PULL REQUEST DETAILS
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BYOND Username: Kotlol
Character Name: Selena James
I have no objections to this.
Neutralness is better since yea if I am playing a "Satanist chaplain".. smacking people with a bible with a cross with the flavor text: "The power of Christ heals <Staffy>"
Is kinda hilarious... but not the flavor I am going for.
We now got the new books but they can't heal like the obivious bible.
So by making it neutral the chaplain is litterly "always someone of a religious status"
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BYOND Username: imawxome
Character Name: Hadrian Pinto
12-05-2024, 06:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2024, 06:43 AM by imawxome. Edited 2 times in total.)
I think just adding a separate “holy” book would be better. I don’t think “The sacred texts” really works with the theme of the chapel, or with it doing stuff like hurting vampires or having a gun called “faith” in it
We already have tons of other books sitting in the chaplain vendor, so just letting the chaplain also use those to heal would expand the themes the chaplain can take a lot.
I think just adding “Sacred texts” to the vendor, and allowing chaplains to heal with any of the books would be better
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BYOND Username: Lefinch
Character Name: Saxum/Chie/Granny/A billion random AIs
It is, but get used to the idea of going "Where is the bible" don't you mean "THE SACRED TEXTS!" for the next like, ten years as we overcome nomenclature inertia.
But sure, considering we fart on the thing I don't think my local prelate nullius is going to lament the change and for everyone else it keeps the idea of a "Feel free to do your own space religion" in mind. But the sprite is still nice and distinct with that shiny bit of gold on a flat grey surface so we know what to fart on/not to fart on.
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BYOND Username: Garash
1. What about the mini bible?
2. What do we call biblefarting now? Losing that term for something lamer would be sad.
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BYOND Username: LorrMaster
Sorry, but I am very against this. I think that features should be individualized for each religion rather than going in, I'm going to call it a postmodernist direction with a joke from a postmodernist director to boot. Would prefer that this to be added as a variant rather than imposing censorship in the name of neutrality.
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BYOND Username: Valtsu0
Character Name: Flint Garry, TAL0S-12
I have been in support of this every time it has come up and i'm still in support.
Calling it censorship is unproductive. We as the goonstation community have changed and even removed a lot of things over the years because we have believed the server to be better that way.
I believe this is a good direction.
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Character Name: Johnny Faith
I wouldn't call myself a chaplain main but I do play it a fair bit and would rather have more things to play with such as holy books from other faiths than making it be just a Jedi meme, personally.
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BYOND Username: Zewaka
Character Name: Shitty Bill Jr.
not a big fan of this, we have other books
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BYOND Username: Bomb_Sirens
Character Name: Miniscule Danee
12-05-2024, 03:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2024, 06:18 PM by cheekybrdy. Edited 3 times in total.)
I'm seeing a bit of retreaded ground here so I'll pull up some context on what got the alternate books changed from being bibles with a dev quote regarding the previous attempt, https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/15132.
"I think I said this in the Discord already but I'll say again here: I don't personally (this is my opinion and not an Official Dev View) like the idea of adding lots of reskins to Bibles, since Bibles have tons and tons of unique mechanics tied to them. They kill you instantly if you fart on them, have shared storage, can contain the chaplain's gun, "heal" people, and can damage two specific antags (one of which can't even hold the thing without giving themselves away and taking damage). I think an item with this many important features tied to it should have very consistent visuals, and I don't think making it less clear which item is/isn't a holy book that does all these things is worth the RP potential, especially when you can already make custom books."
This while not concrete at the time of its writing it was acted upon and is used as the basis for the changes here. Seeing contradictory dev quotes here now so pinch of salt for current dev opinions, but this is just meant to port the bible neutralisation to the "gameplay book" and leave the rest as flavour for the reasons above. I can see the current name I've proposed being a bit touch on the nose though, I'd say "Holy Texts" but I think that might be /tg's current name for it.
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Character Name: Johnny Faith
12-05-2024, 05:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2024, 05:40 PM by Johnny Faith. Edited 1 time in total.)
If it were to change, I think giving the chaplain an option to have their holy book be a "special" skin is the way to go, that makes it obvious that it is the Chaplain's special copy of whatever text it is. While the Bible has gameplay mechanics folded into it, I'd rather give chaplain's a bigger breadth of things to do with their special equipment in an already starved for content class, so I guess if I had to pick I'd say I'm against it in this juncture.
Without straying too far from the PR itself, it might be a good idea to consider in the future more chaplain reworks, or a button to make the chapel skin be in the style of Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/Adeptus Mechanicus. I'd just rather not have chaplain be even more generically smoothed out than they already are.
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BYOND Username: Glamurio
Character Name: Amy Ward, Silas Moore, Emily Larson
12-05-2024, 06:34 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2024, 06:34 PM by Glamurio. Edited 1 time in total.)
Here we go again.
I think this is a fairly neutral change, the chaplain already doesn't walk around like a proper Christian priest 90% of the time and / or worships a plethora of deities that are decidedly not "God". I'm of the opinion that having custom skin bibles is a good thing (because it's fun and Chaplain could use literally ANYTHING to make it more exciting), despite dev opinion, especially if they have consistent name, which makes a whole lot more sense if the book is called "Sacred Tome" vs. "Bible".
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BYOND Username: Freedo5
Character Name: Icaro Picaro, Fire Bomb, Beau McEvil
As long as the item stays recognizable it's fine imo
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BYOND Username: LorrMaster
(12-05-2024, 11:35 AM)valtsu0 Wrote: Calling it censorship is unproductive. We as the goonstation community have changed and even removed a lot of things over the years because we have believed the server to be better that way.
Normally I would agree, but in this case I am calling a spade a spade. Who exactly is this change targeted towards? How is this nebulous idea of neutrality any improvement over the more interesting task of making the role more inclusive for everybody? Keeping/adding all the ideas & symbolism of a culture while removing the name is not being respectful to anybody from my point of view. The other various cultural accents, food, clothing, etc aren't getting scrutinizingly rebranded. I might be okay with this in a different scenario, but as is I find the policy distasteful.
Although in truth the original replacement meme was from my 3rd least favorite Star Wars movie. Can't allow that to slide.
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BYOND Username: Cthucky
flip the sprite upside down and call it the satanic bible
to answer the inevitable questions about why the spine is facing the wrong way now have the description mention it's written backwards, as a satanic bible ought to be
instead of being struck by lightning when farting on it you get struck by flames bursting from beneath your feet
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