New antag: Stinkbug

[Glamurio]

This started out as a stupid idea but then developed into an actual kit. It came from the thought "now that hygiene is gone, what could it be used for"?

The Stinkbug (name in progress) is an antag centered around being stinky, that means they themselves have a hygiene meter and they gain bonuses when being stinky. Not only that, they also gain bonuses from nearby people being stinky, and their abilities are centered around making others stinky. That's right, when the stinkbug is an antagonist, hygiene comes back as a stat, but perhaps is only actively lowered by stink bug abilities (and perhaps only shows up upon being hit by the stinkbug).

I'm picturing abilities such as:
- Repulsive Burst, some kind of ability that knocks people away and into walls or furniture, decreasing their hygiene and dealing damage.
- Noxious Charge, an ability to dash and leave behind stinky clouds, that deal toxic damage (perhaps a new chem)
- Stench Cloud, just an AoE stinky cloud ability, (same toxic damage)
- Chitin Armor, some kind of temporary defensive buff

The general idea is you run around, be a menace, and you gain increased stamina recovery / buffs per person that's stinky around you, up to a cap.
It's silly, it's unique, it's fitting for the space man fart game. Just had to get that idea out.

[freedo5]

I think this would be in competition with plague wraith theme wise, even if wraith is kinda rare this theme feels already covered imo. Also the hygiene stuff reactivating would give away the game mode right away and some people probably don't want to be spoilered.

[Snoid]

i think if u wanna go smaller scale with the idea of a player enabling hygiene on people, having a skunk ghost critter that dead former antags can spawn as that does that would be pretty funny.

[meaow589]

since you talk about dirtiness antagonist. the ability should relate with their name and their propose.
so i suggest the idea about ability in here
the passive is about dirty meter is ok. but should have weakness by cleaning agent.
1. Stinky Synthesis : Ability that you can synthesis dirty chemical agent like space glue / oil / space fungus / blood / vomit / compost / space lube / miasma .you can click on this ability to switch the chemical you want to synthesis.
2. Mass emisis : Projectile and spread chemical you have inside and spread around you.and push victim away. you can switch mode to change the style of spread > spread around you 3x3 / Horizontal 1x6
3. Toxic fart : once you fart you make a toxic gas that deal TOX damage to who inhale it.if you have chemical inside you the smoke will add the chemical inside.
4. mud slap : throw the mud in to your victim eye deal eye damage and blur victim vision for half minute.
The idea of mine is focus on what junk chem we normally think it was a dirty and need chemical agent to clean to deal with it and have ability for fight / survive / flee / creative which look like balance for them to play as antag.

[Glamurio]

I think this would be in competition with plague wraith theme wise, even if wraith is kinda rare this theme feels already covered imo. Also the hygiene stuff reactivating would give away the game mode right away and some people probably don't want to be spoilered.

I don't think hygiene and plague have that much in common right now, and frankly kind of like you said, it's rare enough to get a wraith, let alone a plague wraith. And I mentioned that the sim could simply be enabled when hit the first time.

i think if u wanna go smaller scale with the idea of a player enabling hygiene on people, having a skunk ghost critter that dead former antags can spawn as that does that would be pretty funny.

Yeah, sure. Would be easy enough to add.

[Lefinch]

The only comment I think I have on this isn't positive or negative, and basically speculation: I think this antag would move right to the top of the "most likely to get attacked by the crew en-masse" list. I'm making that guess on the basis that the suggest outline so far is geared almost entirely towards direct-player antagonism. There's currently not a lot of graduated or stealthier stuff aside from I suppose laying down toxic clouds, so players are going to know pretty fast, and be directly "Attacked" by this antagonist.

I suppose the same can be said of vampires. I would suggest though that vampires possess both a utility ability (batform), have an indrect method of power accrual (blood bags) and so on. I wonder if there are ways to either embrace this concept for the suggestion, or offer some kind of utility or stealthier options. Use of air pumps or pressurizers? Grungifying a maints room? spiking janitor's abandoned buckets and buffers? I don't know.

The other thing that I think would make this antagonist a high-priority target is that its effects essentially have two solutions: one palliative, one direct. The palliative is "Well go wash" for players afflicted. The direct is "Kill them" I think some countermeasures involving departments would make sense here. There's already some fairly obvious avenues from Janitorial, Botany, and Genetics, perhaps chemistry if you give them a little ambergris, but a bit like the blob, the suggestion as it stands doesn't have a lot of methods to deal with it beyond ignoring or killing.

This is no means saying the idea is good or bad. I'll be honest I actually don't know how I feel about it. But I also get that putting an idea out there is essentially the first draft so why not go "Here's what I think right now" and seeing if it leads anywhere.

[Glamurio]

The only comment I think I have on this isn't positive or negative, and basically speculation: I think this antag would move right to the top of the "most likely to get attacked by the crew en-masse" list. I'm making that guess on the basis that the suggest outline so far is geared almost entirely towards direct-player antagonism. There's currently not a lot of graduated or stealthier stuff aside from I suppose laying down toxic clouds, so players are going to know pretty fast, and be directly "Attacked" by this antagonist.

I suppose the same can be said of vampires. I would suggest though that vampires possess both a utility ability (batform), have an indrect method of power accrual (blood bags) and so on. I wonder if there are ways to either embrace this concept for the suggestion, or offer some kind of utility or stealthier options. Use of air pumps or pressurizers? Grungifying a maints room? spiking janitor's abandoned buckets and buffers? I don't know.

The other thing that I think would make this antagonist a high-priority target is that its effects essentially have two solutions: one palliative, one direct. The palliative is "Well go wash" for players afflicted. The direct is "Kill them" I think some countermeasures involving departments would make sense here. There's already some fairly obvious avenues from Janitorial, Botany, and Genetics, perhaps chemistry if you give them a little ambergris, but a bit like the blob, the suggestion as it stands doesn't have a lot of methods to deal with it beyond ignoring or killing.

This is no means saying the idea is good or bad. I'll be honest I actually don't know how I feel about it. But I also get that putting an idea out there is essentially the first draft so why not go "Here's what I think right now" and seeing if it leads anywhere.

Fair worries, but also kind of dispelled by your own arguments. All antagonists are geared toward player antagonism, that is their role. Yes, changelings can feed off of recent corpses, and vampires can do the blood bag shtick, and while arcfiends rarely directly attack, their actions can shut down entire departments if unchecked. But their job is to disrupt other players to mix things up, so it's a good thing.
 
I don't see a reason why we can't add equally neutral options to engage the crew with the stinkbug. Maybe just having dirty surroundings can give a benefit, it just so happens that most of our "dirt" tends to be blood or vomit, though there's certainly ways to improve that. We could have stinkbugs eat trashy food, maybe ants in particular, leaving food on the ground everywhere, things like that.

As for it not being stealthy enough, neither are changeling stings or vampires. The former makes the victim make a death gurgle, and both have a giant skill bar above their head. The stealth comes from acting stealthy. Yeah, if you stink up a player, that player will now know that there's a stinkbug, but the important part is that other players won't know until you see stink lines, which can be sometime mid-round. You don't necessarily need a counter beyond "go wash", and "clean the stinkbug". Vampires have a dedicated job against them and you rarely see this play out in rounds. Arcfiends and Changelings, let alone Wizards have nothing focused against them. And much like any other antag active on RP, elimination is only on the menu when they are disrupting the round actively, so I'm not particularly worried.

And I appreciate the feedback. Much like you said, this was a random idea tossed in here to see what sticks, no harm to break it down or reject certain aspects of it, far from it, it can only help.

[Waffleloffle]

purely personal thing but I would prefer if the flavor wasn't centered on how bad this thing smells and how bad they'll make the crew smell, if only because my brain fills in sensory details for that stuff way too easily... could probably give yourself more creative room for theming and abilities if you expand out from merely fumes towards bigger concepts like decay, mildew, contamination, that kinda stuff

[Lefinch]

The only comment I think I have on this isn't positive or negative, and basically speculation: I think this antag would move right to the top of the "most likely to get attacked by the crew en-masse" list. I'm making that guess on the basis that the suggest outline so far is geared almost entirely towards direct-player antagonism. There's currently not a lot of graduated or stealthier stuff aside from I suppose laying down toxic clouds, so players are going to know pretty fast, and be directly "Attacked" by this antagonist.

I suppose the same can be said of vampires. I would suggest though that vampires possess both a utility ability (batform), have an indrect method of power accrual (blood bags) and so on. I wonder if there are ways to either embrace this concept for the suggestion, or offer some kind of utility or stealthier options. Use of air pumps or pressurizers? Grungifying a maints room? spiking janitor's abandoned buckets and buffers? I don't know.

The other thing that I think would make this antagonist a high-priority target is that its effects essentially have two solutions: one palliative, one direct. The palliative is "Well go wash" for players afflicted. The direct is "Kill them" I think some countermeasures involving departments would make sense here. There's already some fairly obvious avenues from Janitorial, Botany, and Genetics, perhaps chemistry if you give them a little ambergris, but a bit like the blob, the suggestion as it stands doesn't have a lot of methods to deal with it beyond ignoring or killing.

This is no means saying the idea is good or bad. I'll be honest I actually don't know how I feel about it. But I also get that putting an idea out there is essentially the first draft so why not go "Here's what I think right now" and seeing if it leads anywhere.

Fair worries, but also kind of dispelled by your own arguments. All antagonists are geared toward player antagonism, that is their role. Yes, changelings can feed off of recent corpses, and vampires can do the blood bag shtick, and while arcfiends rarely directly attack, their actions can shut down entire departments if unchecked. But their job is to disrupt other players to mix things up, so it's a good thing.
 
I don't see a reason why we can't add equally neutral options to engage the crew with the stinkbug. Maybe just having dirty surroundings can give a benefit, it just so happens that most of our "dirt" tends to be blood or vomit, though there's certainly ways to improve that. We could have stinkbugs eat trashy food, maybe ants in particular, leaving food on the ground everywhere, things like that.

As for it not being stealthy enough, neither are changeling stings or vampires. The former makes the victim make a death gurgle, and both have a giant skill bar above their head. The stealth comes from acting stealthy. Yeah, if you stink up a player, that player will now know that there's a stinkbug, but the important part is that other players won't know until you see stink lines, which can be sometime mid-round. You don't necessarily need a counter beyond "go wash", and "clean the stinkbug". Vampires have a dedicated job against them and you rarely see this play out in rounds. Arcfiends and Changelings, let alone Wizards have nothing focused against them. And much like any other antag active on RP, elimination is only on the menu when they are disrupting the round actively, so I'm not particularly worried.

And I appreciate the feedback. Much like you said, this was a random idea tossed in here to see what sticks, no harm to break it down or reject certain aspects of it, far from it, it can only help.

Yeah this is all pretty fair too. I do like the colour of a "hoarding, trashy build a base" antagonist. Like a spief that doesn't actually trade off their hoard, though that's a bit of a different thing. 
To be fair, I'd argue changelings actually can be pretty stealthy with those things, they don't need to be stuck directly into the victim for one, but I take the point that you could probably engineer this role to have similar alternative/creative routes beyond the primary function of their abilities. I do feel there's some kind of play with spiders/ants here that could be good.

[Glamurio]

purely personal thing but I would prefer if the flavor wasn't centered on how bad this thing smells and how bad they'll make the crew smell, if only because my brain fills in sensory details for that stuff way too easily... could probably give yourself more creative room for theming and abilities if you expand out from merely fumes towards bigger concepts like decay, mildew, contamination, that kinda stuff

Not opposed to it, though of course then it may actually kind of compete with wraith stuff. But perhaps that's not bad. Also amazed that your brain fills in "stinky" but not "decay"

The only comment I think I have on this isn't positive or negative, and basically speculation: I think this antag would move right to the top of the "most likely to get attacked by the crew en-masse" list. I'm making that guess on the basis that the suggest outline so far is geared almost entirely towards direct-player antagonism. There's currently not a lot of graduated or stealthier stuff aside from I suppose laying down toxic clouds, so players are going to know pretty fast, and be directly "Attacked" by this antagonist.

I suppose the same can be said of vampires. I would suggest though that vampires possess both a utility ability (batform), have an indrect method of power accrual (blood bags) and so on. I wonder if there are ways to either embrace this concept for the suggestion, or offer some kind of utility or stealthier options. Use of air pumps or pressurizers? Grungifying a maints room? spiking janitor's abandoned buckets and buffers? I don't know.

The other thing that I think would make this antagonist a high-priority target is that its effects essentially have two solutions: one palliative, one direct. The palliative is "Well go wash" for players afflicted. The direct is "Kill them" I think some countermeasures involving departments would make sense here. There's already some fairly obvious avenues from Janitorial, Botany, and Genetics, perhaps chemistry if you give them a little ambergris, but a bit like the blob, the suggestion as it stands doesn't have a lot of methods to deal with it beyond ignoring or killing.

This is no means saying the idea is good or bad. I'll be honest I actually don't know how I feel about it. But I also get that putting an idea out there is essentially the first draft so why not go "Here's what I think right now" and seeing if it leads anywhere.

Fair worries, but also kind of dispelled by your own arguments. All antagonists are geared toward player antagonism, that is their role. Yes, changelings can feed off of recent corpses, and vampires can do the blood bag shtick, and while arcfiends rarely directly attack, their actions can shut down entire departments if unchecked. But their job is to disrupt other players to mix things up, so it's a good thing.
 
I don't see a reason why we can't add equally neutral options to engage the crew with the stinkbug. Maybe just having dirty surroundings can give a benefit, it just so happens that most of our "dirt" tends to be blood or vomit, though there's certainly ways to improve that. We could have stinkbugs eat trashy food, maybe ants in particular, leaving food on the ground everywhere, things like that.

As for it not being stealthy enough, neither are changeling stings or vampires. The former makes the victim make a death gurgle, and both have a giant skill bar above their head. The stealth comes from acting stealthy. Yeah, if you stink up a player, that player will now know that there's a stinkbug, but the important part is that other players won't know until you see stink lines, which can be sometime mid-round. You don't necessarily need a counter beyond "go wash", and "clean the stinkbug". Vampires have a dedicated job against them and you rarely see this play out in rounds. Arcfiends and Changelings, let alone Wizards have nothing focused against them. And much like any other antag active on RP, elimination is only on the menu when they are disrupting the round actively, so I'm not particularly worried.

And I appreciate the feedback. Much like you said, this was a random idea tossed in here to see what sticks, no harm to break it down or reject certain aspects of it, far from it, it can only help.

Yeah this is all pretty fair too. I do like the colour of a "hoarding, trashy build a base" antagonist. Like a spief that doesn't actually trade off their hoard, though that's a bit of a different thing. 
To be fair, I'd argue changelings actually can be pretty stealthy with those things, they don't need to be stuck directly into the victim for one, but I take the point that you could probably engineer this role to have similar alternative/creative routes beyond the primary function of their abilities. I do feel there's some kind of play with spiders/ants here that could be good.

Having a trash hoarder could be neat, though worried about that not also being a bit too obvious. Leaning too heavily into spiders or ants feels like, restrictive, unless we base it around insects, which then has a weird tonal clash with roaches as a muterace. Not sure.