[CLOSED PR] Enables Sims Mode/Motives on Classic

[github_bot]

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About the PR
Enables RP sims on classic. Also makes the admin "toggle sims mode" button a choice between RP/Standard sims and ALL the sims.


Why's this needed?
A few things lead into me wanting motives.

1. Classic needs reasons to drink things. Bartender needs a reason to exist. Food also needs a reason to be eaten, and the (really strong) buffs you get from well made food just doesn't seem to be enough for players.
2. Even if there isn't RP strictly required on classic, it gives a lot of interaction between the crew and the chef/bartender. Better player experience.
3. It will give vending machines, and therefore money, more value. If there's not a chef, you NEED to find the vending machines to get food/drinks.
4. Take a shower you stinker. I like hygiene because it forces players out of their department, even if just briefly. A geneticist in the middle of medbay is hard to kill silently for antags. A geneticist escaping their stench to take a shower is a much better target.
edit: apparently some nerd disabled hygiene on all servers. cowards. stinky cowards.


Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Sord
(*)Enabled Sims mode/motives on classic

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[JOELED]

Really enjoy the addition of food & drink motives to classic, not a fan of hygiene being added (though it isn't currently in the PR on live due to the other testmerge)

[444explorer]

Curious. Interested to see how this plays out.

[Sbmhawk]

Sims are one of the main reasons why I never stuck around on rp, and other servers like /tg/, really not a fan of this.

[Polydanx]

I'm all for Food and Drink motives, not so much hygiene; hunger and thirst will (hopefully) make bartender and chef gameplay more fun and engaging (more customers) while hygiene is pretty pointless to add (annoys you and others with smelly text messages) and will probably just get ignored or disliked by most people

[FlyzerMizer]

Seems like a bad idea to me. I’ve never liked the idea of annoying things and meters to look out for, they aren’t fun to deal with, just tedious. Chef and bartender aren’t owed a visit from crew, I’ll say, if a bartender and/or chef is entertaining enough, or spends enough time being outgoing or encouraging people to eat their food, then people will eat their food. This won’t increase interaction, if anything it’ll just make people buy shit from vending machines. I don’t play rp, I’ve never used the sims feature, but from what I heard, it’s not a particularly liked by all. I just don’t think it’s appropriate to have on classic, it’s gonna just be more annoying than an actually fun addition. I don’t really want to have to take a break in the middle of fighting a blob to microwave myself a donk pocket. There is a admin button I’m pretty sure, that toggles sims, so maybe there could be a couple rounds where this feature is on, but I doubt people will really like it.

[saccharineChampion]

Sounds good. For anyone worried about hygiene, that got axed recently from RP, and if I'm not mistaken this just makes Classic do the same motives as RP, so it doesn't add hygiene to Classic.

[Breezeshadow]

I agree that chef and bartender need more reason to actually do their job (I'd like to see different bartender drinks give different buffs similar to chef food), but adding sims is not the way to go about it. Running around making sure you've eaten and drank every ten minutes sounds like a pain in the ass to manage. Hunger thirst etc should be restricted to the kinds of games that are actually centered around their inclusion, which is not ss13.

[Asterion0]

Bartender absolutely needs this for the role to not feel either useless or like a deluxe chemist job. Some rounds I've spent playing bartender the most interaction I had was from one guy drinking the over 10 drinks I've made and dying to alcohol poisoning, even when there's over 30 people. Largely because mechanically speaking, going to the bar on classic is almost always a 'bad play', as drinking is harmful, it's easy to get poisoned, and even for fun there's not a lot outside of just talking to the bartender, which is actively inhibited by drinking, or dying to the various poisons they've masqueraded as drinks.
While chef on classic is fine as I've had many rounds go very well creating lunchboxes or dinners for people as a chef, that's largely because I would make them and then abandon kitchen to personally hand people boxes of what are seen as objectively useful items. Whenever the food is just left at kitchen for people to self serve it, no matter how useful, a good portion of that food is still there late into the round.
For hygiene I would hope it isn't added to classic (although it looks like it might already be getting removed anyways?) as it doesn't really add to the use of anything other than showers and baths, compared to hunger & thirst giving vending machines, stealth poisons, water coolers, and two player roles far more usefulness and interaction

While I do agree that it might be tedious (I haven't ever played with motives), as long as the downsides are only minor debuffs, or even just purely a meter that says you're thorsty or hungy without any mechanical use, I would 100% be down for this to at least get a test merge just to see the difference in attitude towards barkeeps/chefs.

[Meggal Bozale]

Bartender absolutely needs this for the role to not feel either useless or like a deluxe chemist job. Some rounds I've spent playing bartender the most interaction I had was from one guy drinking the over 10 drinks I've made and dying to alcohol poisoning, even when there's over 30 people. Largely because mechanically speaking, going to the bar on classic is almost always a 'bad play', as drinking is harmful, it's easy to get poisoned, and even for fun there's not a lot outside of just talking to the bartender, which is actively inhibited by drinking, or dying to the various poisons they've masqueraded as drinks.
While chef on classic is fine as I've had many rounds go very well creating lunchboxes or dinners for people as a chef, that's largely because I would make them and then abandon kitchen to personally hand people boxes of what are seen as objectively useful items. Whenever the food is just left at kitchen for people to self serve it, no matter how useful, a good portion of that food is still there late into the round.
For hygiene I would hope it isn't added to classic (although it looks like it might already be getting removed anyways?) as it doesn't really add to the use of anything other than showers and baths, compared to hunger & thirst giving vending machines, stealth poisons, water coolers, and two player roles far more usefulness and interaction

While I do agree that it might be tedious (I haven't ever played with motives), as long as the downsides are only minor debuffs, or even just purely a meter that says you're thorsty or hungy without any mechanical use, I would 100% be down for this to at least get a test merge just to see the difference in attitude towards barkeeps/chefs.

It's literally just not interesting to go for a drink at the bar unless you have a RP thing in mind or feel like just bumbling about. Motives dont force roleplay, they force grabbing a drink.

That being said, hard disagree that this should be anything besides a bit on Classic. I don't like motives and never enjoyed fulfilling them. When I (rarely, albeit) roleplay, I do so with whoever's around me, hardly does this end up being the bar. Unfortunate, but that's that

[IPingu]

I find very little reason for this to be added to classic and a considerable annoyance.
The reason I see for the existence of motives is to encourage player interaction via making them go to the bar. Which gives all players on the station encouragement to converge into a specific spot to increase player interaction or at the very least move outside their department, which is good since both servers benefit off of player interaction. Though that doesn't work on classic, as in the bar there is very little interaction you can do apart from RP related interaction, which classic of course does significantly less because the players don't enjoy it as much. Arguably actions like eating/drinking could be considered out of the sphere of purely RP and could be enjoyable, yet those actions aren't fun if you take in purely the mechanical aspect of it. As they remove a currently debilitating affect on the player rather than giving a rewarding benefit. For RP though its fine, as they can look at the RP side of it with seeing their character eating/drinking and enjoy it.
If you do actually want classic players to interact more with the chef and bartender, as well as give more reason to eat and drink. Motives I say are the worst way to do them in classic. Making drinking give benefits that isn't only from a few drinks, would be the right way to go. As well as making food buffs more strong, or rather making it considerably less nerdy to get the really strong combinations gives more meaning to a chef and food existing.

[Zamujasa]

i feel like it's worth pointing out that

1. the penalties of failing to keep your sims motives up are a small max HP and stamina regen/max penalty

2. you can trivially refill both by downing two cans of chicken soup

motives really aren't as big of a deal as people seem to think they are.

that said i don't really think they're needed on classic but they don't impact things enough to really matter either way

[LeahTheTech]

The stamina regen debuff from thirst is -5 where the default is 10, it's actually pretty impactful.
Personally I'm torn because I'd love to see more reason for the chef and bartender to exist, but I feel like adding this to classic as-is will probably just result in a lot of vending machine busywork that no-one wants to do. We can see how the testmerge goes though!

[George_Manning]

I agree with Leah that this will probably mostly be fulfilled through vending machines - I admit that was where my first thoughts went when I saw my motives emptying. Also, they're a chore to fill - even if I don't need to fill them, I feel compelled to, and filling them feels like ticking a box, not actually adding anything.

Also, and this is a little bit less pressing, but the motives REALLY throw off the UI for me. It feels like there's something constantly in the corner of my vision. If they're gonna be added long-term, I'd at least suggest putting them up in the top, just under stamina and health.

[Rmeaper]

I kinda liked it, I enjoy stuff like the watercoolers having a purpose besides having a big flask, but I feel like it goes down too quickly.