Have job titles show up under players with ALT hover-over

[dwahgon]

i think it would be a really nice quality of life addition to be able to tell people's jobs at a glance without the need to do a full examine and clog your chat up with unnecessary info, just like we already have for names and pronouns by simply holding alt and hovering over them.

as a new player i already struggle to keep up with the constant radio chatter in the chat window, and constantly needing to examine people to tell who im even talking to in terms of rank feels both tedious and unnecessary, especially when i have to find the (JOB) text in the sea of examine text as the chat keeps on scrolling by. sometimes its easy to find at the bottom, sometimes some items or prosthetics add extra info at the end so its not as easy to find anymore

i understand some may feel that it could be too much info at the same time on the screen, but to alleviate that it could be a toggleable option under game settings, where other ALT hover options are located

[Silent Majority]

That'd get used for meta a lot.

[dwahgon]

That'd get used for meta a lot.

can you elaborate? i dont see how being able to tell someone's job title on their equipped ID via hovering over with alt held is any different than what we already currently have with a full examine, in terms of meta'ing

[Fuppy]

That'd get used for meta a lot.

can you elaborate? i dont see how being able to tell someone's job title on their equipped ID via hovering over with alt held is any different than what we already currently have with a full examine, in terms of meta'ing

It'd definitely make it harder to slip into somewhere you aren't supposed to be via a disguise. Most people don't full examine everyone around them, but most people definitely use alt. I'm not sure if this explanation is exactly what they had in mind, but its what I thought up.

[dwahgon]

It'd definitely make it harder to slip into somewhere you aren't supposed to be via a disguise. Most people don't full examine everyone around them, but most people definitely use alt. I'm not sure if this explanation is exactly what they had in mind, but its what I thought up.

okay.. but where (and how) are you slipping into without having proper ID for disguise and entry? assuming being around others in public since you mentioned disguise, if you're hacking doors or emagging that already makes you look sus, sprinting into open doors may still look weird and now you're inside a place with no ID access (possibly surrounded by others) and even if you're pulling out captain's spare out of your pocket to gain access, i still feel like it doesnt take much at all to alt-click someone either to find out if theyre supposed to be around or not

and if its not around other players and you just wanted a disguise in case you get walked-in on while being somewhere illegally.. again, i think people of that department already ctrl+e when they dont recognize your name, right after already having full examined you

[Lefinch]

I had a bit of a think about your post. At first I was just going to cover one example of how this would make it harder to be disguised from less-observant (or busier) people if you happened to have a way to disguise yourself for antagonistic purposes but didn't have an ID. But what you wrote has been bugging me because there seems to be two different things going on, Radio-based communication and face to face.

For radio, you've currently got the Headset-based departmental indicator, "CE" for Chief Engineer for example, or "Sec" for Sec. They're colour coded. They can of course be spoofed by obtaining a spare (or having an ability or item that let you spoof it) but I feel comfortable saying this is entirely by design and part of the game by choice rather than accidental inconvenience. For the most part though, who is speaking is apparent and if not, there's a deliberate reason for this.

In person, you can tell who is speaking both by the "I'm typing something" speech bubble and then the floating text. In person, you've got the method you've mentioned, ALT + Click, but you also have the basic visual cues of uniform. Sometimes they might not be wearing it, sometimes the uniform they're wearing might not be theirs, but at least you can see exactly who is saying something to you.

So when you said "...needing to examine people to tell who im even talking to" especially when you follow it with "In terms of rank" suggests this isn't about being confused as to who is speaking, but more confused as whether someone is speaking with appropriate authority. Correct me if I'm wrong there as what I'm about to say only really applies to that rather than getting confused as to who is saying something, the former is something that'll catch out players who have been playing for years not just new players, and I would argue entirely intentional. The latter is more about making sure basic visual information is clear to new players and the previously mentioned visual cues hopefully do that, but I'm definitely not against exploring that issue.

Socially engineering a situation to make it tricky for you to tell they're not actually supposed to be somewhere, or are giving you an order as a captain when they're not by just making it confusing enough for other players to tell is badass. I've had it done to me, I've done it to other players. One of my top 5 rounds involves being completely -hoodwinked- by a salvager who kicked off their mining suit, threw on a staff assistant outfit, and quietly waited outside security until their fellow salvagers attacked. They patiently waited and as security was trying to withdraw, used the confusion of the situation to convince the captain to open the door for them to access the lobby. They snuck in and absolutely looted the hell out of the back area while we "Dealt with the real problem"

This guy had the salvager backpack on, and no ID, but by just a little clever social engineering and timing they exploited a chaotic situation to make bank. If a quick ALT + hover showed (No ID) that turns a captain's split-second decision to pause and check their manifest, or perhaps examine a little more closely why that person had such a strange backpack less expensive and more routine. I do not like that, and I was that fool of a Captain. I'm not exactly Mr Pro SS13 Gamer, but I'm hardly new at this point, but they got me good, and I wouldn't want to discourage that entirely on the basis of convenience, which I think this suggestion is instead of accessibility.

So, I love QoL stuff, I don't like this particular suggestion personally. I hope all this covers why.

[Fuppy]

It'd definitely make it harder to slip into somewhere you aren't supposed to be via a disguise. Most people don't full examine everyone around them, but most people definitely use alt. I'm not sure if this explanation is exactly what they had in mind, but its what I thought up.

okay.. but where (and how) are you slipping into without having proper ID for disguise and entry? assuming being around others in public since you mentioned disguise, if you're hacking doors or emagging that already makes you look sus, sprinting into open doors may still look weird and now you're inside a place with no ID access (possibly surrounded by others) and even if you're pulling out captain's spare out of your pocket to gain access, i still feel like it doesnt take much at all to alt-click someone either to find out if theyre supposed to be around or not

and if its not around other players and you just wanted a disguise in case you get walked-in on while being somewhere illegally.. again, i think people of that department already ctrl+e when they dont recognize your name, right after already having full examined you

Science comes to mind in terms of acquiring stuff for crime (especially if you roll sleeper), and you can definitely slip into places without being seen initially. Or maybe come in from maintenance where you're less likely to be seen. No one has to see you when you first enter is my point, whether that be via door hacking or the spare. Also, again, people are much less likely to do a full inspect on anyone in general as opposed to checking for their name/pronouns.

[Kotlol]

While it sounds like a QoL idea.. this idea.. has some HUGE IMPLICATIONS.

Let me explain how. Holding alt reveals the name and title (aka their job) to anyone in your vicinity.
It does something else as well. Make people who aren't trying to run their ID be very visibile to security.

Mostly antagonists who wear clothing of a different department but haven't gotten an ID for it yet. So when they ran past a security officer that happens to be holding alt, the officer sees: "UNKNOWN" or "Antagy McTagonist - No ID" Now instantly the antagonist will be pulled over by the security officer and an encounter will happen.
EVERY SINGLE TIME.

As also noted in previous posts. Anyone who presses alt in those departments will see you and instantly snitch on you.

By having to click to examine them allows them to avoid the click and it allows a person to only focus one person to examine.

While I agree this floods your chatbox...and it is annoying as FUUUUUUUUUUCK. What you suggest isn't a QoL, it's a straight nerf to disguising with no ID or the wrong ID.

I think what you rather want is if you examine someone it gives a pop up window insted. And insted of multiplue examines in your chatlog... This pop up window will only show 1 person at a time you examine. Thus nerfing scrolling up to "remember" what someone was wearing for example.

I think this is a better idea so it doesn't clog the radio chatter with the wrong examines or the right one or spamming it on accident and at the same time allowing players to keep that information open on the side.

[Soleil]

I am surprised by the responses to this idea, do people not already examine click people they don't recognize or who are suspicious? If I'm an Engineer and a person in a full spacesuit walks in, I am examining that person immediately. As a long time player, I examine click people so so so SO much that I would love this as simple QoL.

As for the whole "but this ruins sneaky antags!", does it really? It seems like a lot of you are confused on how the ALT feature works. When you hold ALT, nothing magical happens, you have to specifically hold ALT and hover your mouse over a specific person for their name and pronouns to show up. Only AI, observers and Cyborgs don't need to do so. Meaning this suggestion would purely eliminate the chatlog spam and save you a single click. 

In the salvager staffie example, the Captain would have to hold ALT and hover their mouse over the staffie to see the text, and we can simply have nothing show up if they are lacking an ID or something. But why would the Captain do that when they haven't bothered to examine them in the first place? In the Security Officer example from Kotlol, the Security Officer would have to hold ALT and hover over everyone running past them. And if they are stopping people for not having an ID, that's pretty lame.

Just a few days ago I had a chameleon outfit and a holographic disguiser and so so so many random people would just walk up to me, janitors or doctors, and be like "why are you wearing a blank ID". So it's already pretty difficult to be sneaky in a world where random people just examine click everyone. This change would make it so newbees can easier orient themselves, and regulars get to avoid chatspam and one more click.

[Kotlol]

 So it's already pretty difficult to be sneaky in a world where random people just examine click everyone. This change would make it so newbees can easier orient themselves, and regulars get to avoid chatspam and one more click.

That's just it, there is a skill to it. And cyborgs can see from the get go who's who. Making it a feature just for them.

This is why I suggest a pop out window. Cause tell me.. how long will it take for someone to ask: "Why do I have to press alt to see their titles too? Why can I not have it on at all times?" Cause.. why press alt to see their job titles anyway? Why not just have a toggle to see names, pronouns and job title whenever. Why bother pressing a button to see it? Why not toggle it with a button?

The answer is simple. "There is a non interaction"

And yes people alt spam click alot, but here's the thing. They still need to time to stop and read those examines.
See someone supicious? Alt click to examine.. but ooh no you can't since they ran off. But if you did alt you would see "UNKNOWN" or "NAME, NO ID"

Now would I be fine with a togglable abillity? No.. since at that point we basically have a "HUD glasses" feature right on the game screen.

This is why I propose the "popout window" insted. And have what is suggested here as a special "HUD glasses" feature.
"But newbees need to see everyone from the get go who they are."

Yea I get that, but I'd be honest to say this... this is a social deduction game and people alt click spamming everyone means they chose an information overload to scroll through. But in my opinion? If we just make it a pop out window or side tab all together that can only examine 1 person at a time.. suddenly we are both giving newbees what they need and stopping EXAMINE SPAM cause now examining takes effort for one person...
Heck as a doctor with MED-HUD. You can now safely read the medical report on your glasses without the radio guy shouting it away in the chatlog.

But if you really want this... I'd say remove even the alt requirement and just have it be a togglable abillity. No need to hold alt. Just turn it on or off.
Cause if we are going for full QoL, why even bother showing stuff by holding a button? Why not show it at all times? Now you won't accidentally alt click someone, now you can always see "Mr. Unknown" in the crowd and beat on him.

[Frank_Stein]

I think you could solve and expand the lack of an ID not matching your job clothing with label guns. Stick a label on someone, have that show up in a similar way to an ID on the Alt Examine.

Open up more opportunities for document forgery that will pass quick visual inspections but have tells on closer looks

[Zamujasa]

as a point of comparison, /tg/-code implements this by having it be one of many icons, like our health / arrest overlays. it is visible only to people wearing security huds. it is just an icon based on the job's text -- a medic has a blue cross, assistants are a gray A, etc, the full text is not shown.

examining a person on tg/monke will put a full-size image of their id card in your chat box, making it more visible.


... that said.

i, personally, do not like this idea. "but zam, you're usually all over quality of life stuff" -- this is true, and i even held the opposite stance with online/offline status.

but i do not think this is a good change. some things should have friction. some things shouldn't be quick to discern, and this is one of them.

names make some sense, because in the context of this game you are aboard a station with coworkers, presumably ones you are at least relatively familiar with. you need some information to make the game work. so you "recognize" your coworkers. (unfamiliar names also work, because Game Design.) but that doesn't necessarily need to carry to job titles, and you would need to be pretty close to read someone's ID card in person.

just treat alt-click as you leaning in to squint at their tag.