Complaint Zamujasa

[Jillith]

I hate that I even have to make this thread, and yet I hate that I waited so long.

So, I have a bit of history with Zamujasa. She runs this little offsite community. We'd talk about video games or whatever, I'd come into her streams, generally pretty chill stuff.

Then one day she invited me to play Goonstation. My god, what a game. But as it turns out, I'm not the best at roleplaying or even following rules 100% to the letter. And Zamujasa turns out to be the one with the least patience for this. To the extent that I have been punished on multiple occasions before I was even aware I crossed a line, and frequently pushed out of discussing things further. And if this is still not the place to have an honest discussion, then no such place exists.

So I'm going to go over a few of the times I've broken the rules and gotten weirdly disproportionate responses and poor communication, all of which were handled by the same admin.

The first time I foolishly suicided in security's custody (after I had foolishly removed law 1 as non-antag, which a different admin dealt with gracefully), I got reclaimed, ahelped it, and she was there to tell me two wrongs made a right. Suddenly I'm not so mad at the person who reclaimed me anymore, because it seems that we're expected to bully rulebreakers with a taste of their own medicine. Fine. Okay. I'm not supposed to play characters with suicidal tendencies, but is it really okay for people to go full shitsec and break the rules back in response? Would the staff agree that this style of escalation simply comes with the territory?

I later made some passive-aggressive remarks about her to another player in response to how she handled the situation, and ended up generalizing the whole admin team in the process. I'm not trying to hide this because I firmly believe it was a shitty thing to do and I want to be better than that. I was lucky enough to be talked to by one of the other admins about it first, but Zamu did ask me in private afterward if I was specifically referring her and implored me to "answer carefully". I mean, it's not like I had any reason to lie about it in the first place, but that wording makes it sound like a pretty fucking big deal. Like she had taken it personally and was now threatening me with something if I don't clarify in full honesty. Which I did. The short version is that I have whatever garbage emotional mental faculties commonly lead to being a passive-aggressive shitter when I feel like I've been wronged. But it's worse than that, because I know a few things about her personal situation that I probably should have considered before running my mouth.

We're going in chronological order here, so bear with me if this seems kina non-sequitir: The first time I witnessed someone use the word p***s and then explode, I thought they had suicided immediately afterward based on the context of the situation. But I soon learned that the line on what constitutes "sexual content" is closer than it appears when I foolishly quoted them and immediately exploded. Zamujasa's doing, no words were exchanged until after the fact. And it feels strange that this even happened considering all the communities I've been in where sexual content is banned but you're still allowed to say p***s in silly contexts, including the one in question.

Earlier today I mentioned something in the Discord's roleplay discussion channel about a possible bug I found and wanted clarification on whether or not it was actually a bug before I sent a report. In the middle of this discussion (which included another admin) Zamu comes in and tells me to stop talking about the current round. Wait, what? I was discussing the nature of something purely mechanical, with another admin no less, and was summarily given a ten minute mute for trying to continue that discussion. So I shot back with some criticism in private, the most gentle I can muster, and what happens? I get called insufferable, banned from her offsite community, attempt to make amends and she wastes no time digging up the thing I said before and blocking me:



So, Zamujasa: I am kind of at my wit's end here. There was like, zero friction between us until Goonstation. I completely understand just being fucking fed up with everything, but I came here to have fun not be bullied and yelled at over the smallest and most victimless infractions. And I want you to know that no matter what kind of shitty things I might say in the heat of the moment, I would still stop playing this game entirely for your sake if you simply asked me to.

[jan.antilles]

Hi there. Zamujasa is free to answer your feedback thread on her own if she decides to, but to begin with: the admin feedback forum is not the place to try to get around being blocked by someone. Your history and friendship with her is not something that needs to be hashed out on this forum. If she's blocked you, accept her decision and move on.

As for your feedback on how you have been handled by the administration team as a whole:

You admit multiple times throughout your post that you did, in fact, break the rules. The admin team is a team, and this is not one administrator who has it out for you because she invited you to play. This is you breaking the rules and being made aware of it, time after time.

To pull some relevant quotes:

I later made some passive-aggressive remarks about her to another player

I shot back with some criticism

being a passive-aggressive shitter when I feel like I've been wronged

was summarily given a ten minute mute for trying to continue that discussion

These behaviors are not welcome in our community. You have been warned time after time, by four other admins (just going by your notes) and not just Zamujasa.

Zamujasa has not treated you unfairly, and neither has any other admin that I can see in your note history. Please let go of any personal issues that you have with her, and follow the rules when you play on our servers or participate in our Discord.

[Jillith]

You admit multiple times throughout your post that you did, in fact, break the rules. The admin team is a team, and this is not one administrator who has it out for you because she invited you to play. This is you breaking the rules and being made aware of it, time after time.

Zamujasa has not treated you unfairly, and neither has any other admin that I can see in your note history. Please let go of any personal issues that you have with her, and follow the rules when you play on our servers or participate in our Discord.

I would like to see where the whole admin team, over the course of like three seconds discussed the whole "p***s" situation and decided beforehand that the appropriate course of action was to kill people without saying a word to them. In the real world we call that shooting first and asking questions later and it gets people rightfully pissed off. Do you think it's supposed to make an example of them or something, when I couldn't even tell it was caused by admin intervention until it happened to me right after? In fact she had not killed the first player to do it, there would never have even been an in-character reason for me to repeat their last words.

That's the major difference here. If you won't honestly acknowledge that this approach is mean-spirited, confusing, and ineffective at actually deterring people from crossing the line then this criticism is directed at you too.

[jan.antilles]

Both that player and you were messaged by the administrator in question to remind you of the rule that you broke. You are told every single time you log in that sexual content is not tolerated. That includes jokes about genitals.

Nobody is shooting you. Nobody is acting in a mean spirited way.

Acknowledge that you broke the rules and move on.

[Zamujasa]

i wish you could see that your failure to accept that you were and are wrong is causing you to rapidly go down this path of destruction. truly.

cliffs notes of just how we got here:
jillith talks about the current round in #rp-chat.
i say "if this is current round stuff, do not discuss it".
jillith says that since it's maybe about a bug, it's not actually the current round.
i say, no, it still is, don't do this.
jillith continues to debate me.
i time out jillith for ten minutes.

if only things had stopped there.

jillith then pinged me in the discord community for my long-time forum.
my personal discord server.
to argue about the rule.
again.

and then, after more "please stop digging this hole, there are ways to handle this that aren't fighting with me",
i banned her from that community.

and then she messaged me, and i blocked her there, too.

and so the interaction that started here, made its way to my home community, has finally wound up back here. time is a flat circle.

the whole "p***s" situation and decided beforehand that the appropriate course of action was to kill people without saying a word to them

every rule break is not owed an evaluation by the entire admin team. sometimes people who do this instead get a 5 minute ban, or depending on other factors, a ban to forums, or a permaban.

i chose removing you from the round, because i was already in the process of dealing with the other person.




again, the thing you see every time you log in is excruciatingly clear about this. i know, because i wrote it:

ze·ro tol·er·ance
noun refusal to accept antisocial behavior, typically by strict and uncompromising application of the law.

please also pay special attention to the "if an admin tells you to stop doing something, stop doing it" part of that message.

[Jillith]

cliffs notes of just how we got here:
jillith talks about the current round in #rp-chat.
i say "if this is current round stuff, do not discuss it".
jillith says that since it's maybe about a bug, it's not actually the current round.
i say, no, it still is, don't do this.
jillith continues to debate me.
i time out jillith for ten minutes.

can i ask why you are like this? what makes you different from the other admin who responded to me in good faith? why are you drilling me over the single most inconsequential thing i have ever been drilled over, using this absurdly technically incorrect interpretation of a rule against me, and where do you even find the energy to be this way? yes in hindsight i do wish it had occurred to me to just ahelp for clarification in the first place, but come the fuck on. this is not a constructive way to enforce a rule and is certainly not helping anyone to enjoy this game

and i hate how this dumb escalation shit is how you default to handling criticism "no you're wrong shut up or i'll do more to hurt you" is really how it has gone every time. i've kind of felt like a forum is not a great format for airing minor grievances but it's the place i keep being directed to if i dare to press any issue, so now i guess it's all finally contained here where you can all safely ignore it

this behavior pattern on the whole is why i'm unwilling to forgive even the first thing on the list, which everyone seems to just kind of skirt around. from the very first fucking time i ahelped a rule-breaking behavior i'm issued a languid "fuck you you ain't no angel!" and i still have every reason to be livid about it. it was okay this one time because it happened to me in response to something i did. no. fuck you. that kind of flippancy is toxic and not how you treat anyone, ever, especially not someone who you know to have abandonment issues, who is actually trying their damnedest to adjust to the community you've just brought them into. and the most frustrating part is that you still don't believe you did any wrong by me

for fuck's sake i even posted the character bio that led to this exact situation beforehand, in a place where you can't possibly have missed it, and you had nothing to say about it until after the shit had hit the fan. but i guess that one's on me for actually believing you had any fucks to give about anything, ever

i chose removing you from the round, because i was already in the process of dealing with the other person.

you also chose removing them from the round already, so like, i get that part. what i don't get is why the first lightning strike on me didn't entirely kill me, because that was the point where it occurred to me "that was admin intervention and my dumb ass shouldn't have quoted them". that was sufficient. it was only after i made a snarky (but not rule-breaking, as far as i can tell?!) in-character remark that i was hit again and fully removed from the round. was this a perceived second offense or what? just wanted to shut me up for shits and giggles?

either way, i really don't see why this approach is okay. like yeah, the timing of it was mildly funny the first time, to the point where i thought it was part of some character bit, (specifically: a fresh cyborg who was so entrenched in masculinity that they exploded in confusion) and that's ultimately why it was so confusing. in this game people die in a lot of strange ways a lot of the time. to integrate punishments into gameplay like that so abruptly is just not making an example of them as much as leaving people bewildered as to what actually happened

by all means punish people as soon as they fuck up before saying a word if you feel the need to, but don't blame them if they think you're doing it just to be an asshole. actions don't merely speak louder than words, they have a way of drowning them out. it is painfully ironic that you call special attention to the "if an admin tells you to stop doing something, stop doing it" when actually using your words and simply telling someone to stop is decidedly not satisfactory to you

[Zamujasa]

using this absurdly technically incorrect interpretation of a rule against me

lol


edit to add some actual words: if you are still hung up on the initial action being wrong, there is nothing that can be done. you seem to think that you live in an alternate reality where your interpretation of the rules stands, instead of the one everyone else is in.

[jan.antilles]

The feedback in this thread regarding actual administrative actions has been discussed, and it does not need to remain open for additional personal attacks.

I am now closing it.