[MERGED PR] Makes Stowaway a latejoin role

[github_bot]

PULL REQUEST DETAILS



About the PR
This PR delists Stowaway as a round-start trait, instead attaching it to a latejoin role. All other behaviors of Stowaway remain the same.

The new latejoin role:
**Stowaway:** 2 slots. Typical Stowaway container start, with nothing but a jumpsuit, headset, and makeshift tools for door hacking (crowbar, scissors, and screwdriver, so you don't get locked in maints)

Why's this needed?
Characters with the Stowaway trait are in this stupid position of having half a job. On one hand, you're clearly recognizable as whatever job you signed up for-- Scientist Stowaways show up garbed in gasmask and labcoat, Bartender Stowaways have their trusty break-action at their hip, Security Stowaways start with their official NT badges proving they're an officer, and Captain Stowaways start with the Nuclear Authentication disk. At the same time, though, they're totally unemployed-- they lack their ID and PDA for doing their job, and they aren't paid wages because NT didn't put them on the manifest.

Because Stowaways have half a job, it makes it very easy to simply give the Stowaway whatever job their character would have had if they weren't Stowaways. It's a very, very common practice for Captains and HoPs to just completely ignore the fact that NT *did not want this person working today* and give them the ID, PDA, and whatever else they need. In a way, it gets interacted with in a similar way to Jailbird-- a character that consistently stows away will just get the ID they need, completely defeating the point of taking the trait. There's an argument here that Stowaways should be given the ID-- after all, the player needs it to actually play the game and do their job-- but, again, they took the trait. This is such an accepted practice that I've experienced goon-2-esque conflicts where a secoff threatens to throw the HoP across the room because they won't give a Stowaway secass an ID with sec access.

And, tangentially, this status quo makes Stowaway a powergamer trait for antag rounds. Because you aren't deprived of your PDA, ID, or job title thanks to the ennui of whoever's behind the ID console, the trait becomes a +1 that scrubs your name from the sec records that'd be used to set you to arrest. Even when you're not antag, the trait's core concept can invite characters that are "rebellious punks who Aren't With You People," which is never fun to deal with.

Stowaways, in their current state as a thing you can do every round, don't make sense for any job. Secoffs with shiny badges shouldn't be ignoring the wishes of whoever schedules shifts at NT to break into their workplaces and hang out. Stowaway Captains shouldn't be issued nuclear authentication disks, or be respected as an authority by the crew when NT didn't even schedule them. (If they aren't issued IDs or PDAs, why the heck do they get the rest of this stuff?) People who have valuable labor to contribute shouldn't be repeatedly putting in the extra effort to sneak into a space station just to work for free.


Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Mintyphresh
(*)Stowaway can no longer be taken as a trait, and is instead a latejoin role.

PULL REQUEST DETAILS

[Emimiyu]

I have mixed feelings about this. I feel like adding a stowaway as job role with hacking tools seem like a "free to grief" role. Private eye is weird because there is still det slot. I do find the idea is neat, add more flavour to roleplay. But disagree on giving them hacking tools.

Though, I am not a fan of the trait because it gets too meta (ie puritan meta, player meta). I would rather have stowaway to be gone or have limited jobs they can pick. I am also not sure if it become a latejoin role, people will meta it less.

[Decarcassor]

I kinda like this. It would make sense that stowaway would be its own role rather than being this weird fully equiped but not actualy employed case.

I feel iffy about stowaways starting in locked places and needing to cut wires to get out or bother the AI immediatly. What if they had a fake ID instead ? Wrong color, probably misspelled, and not tied to a record, but giving them the minimal amount of access ?

[Mouse]

Not a fan, both because it fucks with gimmick characters I play sometimes and because spawning someone in maint with hacking tools seems like a great way to get electrified and bolted doors everywhere.

[Glamurio]

Copy-pasting my comment from the PR:

I actually really like this, but my issue with this addition is in removing personality from a character. This issue lies primarily in "latejoining" as a system; it means that if I want to play my stowaway character, I now can't do so unless I happen to see it in the roster. I'd love for this to lead to a follow-up about looking into specialized roles in general, there's a lot of cool ones that rarely see play because you a) need to be lucky enough to have them show up and b) you can only play as them if you latejoin.

Since we currently still have the issue of people latejoining vs. readying up at roundstart, I would personally prefer if all of these separate jobs could be consistently queued for with the same priority as a "staff assistant", if that makes sense. I'd sooner prefer playing a "stowaway" than a "staff assistant" any day of the week, and I'm not taking away real estate since I was only ever competing with other staffies.

[mintyphresh]

I can definitely see how spawning with hacking tools can be problematic, but the whole "spawning in maint with hacking tools" was already possible with taking Stowaway and picking engineer. Stowaways kind of need some way to sneak around the station; if their roundstart involves pounding on a maint door until they get let out then that kind of ruins the whole schtick.

A bootleg ID is a reasonable suggestion, though, and definitely something I'd implement if the hacking tools route ended up not working out.

[Kotlol]

In my opinion... no...

The stoway trait is kinda bad anyway.. since it is terrible for a security officer. It defeats the point.

While the role is a good idea, the execution is fucking awful.

In my opinion Stoways should just have two objectives.
"Do not be in handcuffs at the end of a round."
"Have <X> amount of credits on you by the end of the round."

The 1st one is because beepskies will arrest you on sight.
The 2nd one is a reason for stoways to even be on the station. They want money.

Security can ignore em or put em in, but in the end... the stoway is working to get credits on hand with them.

Also notice I said "By the end of the round." They do not have to escape to finish objectives. They just gotta avoid being in cuffs and get money.

[Cropsey]

I know there's a small handful of players who take the stowaway trait- myself included- and this seems pretty targeted towards getting rid of that population entirely which seems pretty unwarranted.

Changing the stowaway trait is a decent idea RP-wise but this execution is just going to result in getting electrocuted to death in maintenance because you can't find the wire to get the door open. I quite like the idea of a stowaway spawning with a bootleg ID, maybe a paper visitors pass, or locking them out of command/sec jobs where it doesn’t make sense (but again that cuts out some player freedom)

We already have a massive issue with people not readying up to get late join roles, this will not make that better. if the stowaway trait WAS it's own job- the way you suggested- but you take that trait and you only ever roll that job, then that would in theory solve the issue.

[Glamurio]

The 2nd one is a reason for stoways to even be on the station. They want money.

What gives you the impression a stowaway wants money? A stowaway is a character that's on a transport to a location / in a location where they don't have the right to be by means of stowing away (hence the name). Nothing implies they need or want money, it could merely be a pit-stop in between, a place to crash or a way to get information.

[LeahTheTech]

I like this in general, the current stowaway trait makes no sense and just kind of causes weird meta issues with certain characters. The private eye is a hard no from me though, we really don't need a second detective with even less oversight and motivation to get into fights with people.

[Kotlol]

The 2nd one is a reason for stoways to even be on the station. They want money.

What gives you the impression a stowaway wants money? A stowaway is a character that's on a transport to a location / in a location where they don't have the right to be by means of stowing away (hence the name). Nothing implies they need or want money, it could merely be a pit-stop in between, a place to crash or a way to get information.

Money to survive and buy food and drinks and such. Think of it like "They are gathering resources"

Also I just want a job who sees value in paper money XD

[mintyphresh]

I know there's a small handful of players who take the stowaway trait- myself included- and this seems pretty targeted towards getting rid of that population entirely which seems pretty unwarranted. [...]

We already have a massive issue with people not readying up to get late join roles, this will not make that better.

What problems does not readying up cause? I'm not familiar with how that would affect the game... Making Stowaway a roundstart role makes some sense mechanically, but not design-wise; Stowaway isn't a "Job" like every other roundstart role is, and putting it up there doesn't really feel appropriate since it makes it essentially the king of gimmick jobs.

The intent of this is not to kill Stowaway-- it's still possible to play as a Stowaway, it's just not possible to start with a bartender shotgun or a CE jumpsuit, and you can't do it every single round. I'll make it a guaranteed role, like research assistant, the next time I update the PR.

[Glamurio]

I know there's a small handful of players who take the stowaway trait- myself included- and this seems pretty targeted towards getting rid of that population entirely which seems pretty unwarranted. [...]

We already have a massive issue with people not readying up to get late join roles, this will not make that better.

What problems does not readying up cause? I'm not familiar with how that would affect the game... Making Stowaway a roundstart role makes some sense mechanically, but not design-wise; Stowaway isn't a "Job" like every other roundstart role is, and putting it up there doesn't really feel appropriate since it makes it essentially the king of gimmick jobs.

The intent of this is not to kill Stowaway-- it's still possible to play as a Stowaway, it's just not possible to start with a bartender shotgun or a CE jumpsuit, and you can't do it every single round. I'll make it a guaranteed role, like research assistant, the next time I update the PR.

When the game starts, it counts the amount of players who are readied up and then spawns a proportionate amount of antagonists according to the number of players. If only half of the players ready up and then join right after, that means we get 50% less antagonists than we otherwise would, skewing the balance and vibe of the round. As a band-aid fix, it was changed so that non-readied players count as 1/2 of a full player, because a good chunk of players would join shortly after the round had started. As such, we are currently trying to find ways for players to ready up for round-start, and changing a trait to be latejoin only would do the exact opposite, that's the argument.

[mintyphresh]

snip

Ah, thank you! I admit I'm not super concerned about that right now, since there's not many stowaway players, but if like a dev or something says it could be important then yeah I'll do it

[Solwra]

I like the idea of this, as a stowaway or someone whos trying to smuggle their way through NT this should be a seperate "job" as you are not really considered to be part of the crew in the first place and the argument of "trying" to sneak into a shift as a crewmember just seems more odd than anything. I'd say the problem is door hacking as that would leave a doors electrified and/or hacked and instead replace it with a smuggled lanyard that only gives you maint access.