RP Wizard/werewolf feedback

[TDHooligan]

Just opening a thread because I have heard a surprisingly small number of takes from RP players about werewolves and wizards. What are your thoughts on their addition?


I've personally found it really hard to actually roleplay seriously with them. Wizards I see cluwning people surprisngly early into shifts, but fair enough. I don't think I've seen a single werewolf live any reasonable amount of time, and people seem keen to get rid of them ASAP. it's tilted a lot of roundstarts to a murderthon, then it completely deadens the shift once they die.

i appreciate positive thoughts here, too. people who like the flavor, let it be known!

[Dhaidburt]

Oddly enough, that's the opposite of what I've seen but I still agree with you that it's hard to roleplay with both of them. Wizards have usually hightailed it, the shift being about them running around and sec just trying to catch up. The good rp in the round comes more around people reacting to what they've done instead of with the wizard itself. Interacting with the fairy tale animals of the crew, or how to interact with the cluwnes are the interest here.

Werewolves have been incredibly passive and people treated them like people in fursuits in public (you give them weird looks but overall don't bother them) I've seen a really good werewolf force so much action into a round (great as a doctor), so I know they can work well, but too many times they do nothing as an antag.

[Lord_earthfire]

I think wizards fit perfectly on RP. I agree with what Dhaidburt said that direct interaction is rather uncommon, but i don't think thats a bad thing. Their effects add just enough chaos in a round that creates more RP among other peoplem in that area they are not RP'ing themselves too much, but they enable RP around them.

People pick often not deadly spells, which are nice for using for escalation. Heres a little problem, though: there are not enough. At least i have seen every second wizard take cluwning. I think if they had more funny/utility spells, it would vastly improve their RP potential.

Werewolfs, on the other hand, enable some early damage in a shift, which is sonething RP rounds tend to not have and is thus needed. The sentiment has indeed shifted from "awww, look at this pup" to "this is a danger" and that's a good thing imo.

The problem if the early deaths exist, but i don't think the problem is the werewolf dying early (they are kinda designed for fast escalation). I think the problem is just having an antag less in the game and this creates a problem because if the low antag count on RP.

I think both antags work for RP, wizards certainly better than werewolves.

[Silent Majority]

I've done 2 threads on these but to sum up

Werewolf is distuptive. Wizard if they're not rpinh is very unfun.

I had a wiz round every timr they saw a sec off they cast fitreball prismstic spray spell shield and teleported away.

This was 9 times for me. Not a word or emote. Just sent to ctit. Usually while talking yo someone. Ive seen oyher wizards behin just wordlessly cluwneing people. I've seen Werewolbes go on silent rampages. Alot.

I think the main thing is werewolf shouldn't be a round start but a late join. And wizard should be a major antag slot lole wraith.

Having a wizard, werewolf, and ling with only 20 people and 2 sec is just...silly

[Carton]

This thread is somewhat old but I'm bringing it back. 

Having played a decent amount of rounds against them, I don't think Wiz is well suited for RP. People have been much better about actually RPing before they attack, but once they do, it is at its core a rampage antag, and as such, it's constant fighting until they die, (or with soulguard, until they die twice.) because there is no alternative.  Additionally, at present, its very easy to just stun a large group, steal the gear they drop, return to their hideout, and then make it impossible for anyone to get their stuff back. doing this a few times can totally disarm security. I think they'd need a pretty serious redesign to be truly suitable for RP. 

That said, I don't mind the occasional crazy "Fight the wizard" round, but there are definitely changes that have to be made both to weighting and balance to compensate for them. For example, I think on rounds with a wizard, there should be significantly fewer other antags, as you can currently have a wizard and 3-4 traitors in the same round, which can get extremely hectic if those antags decide to be aggressive. Another change I'd suggest is dropping items that aren't clothing or part of their wizard gear when they return to their hideout, to prevent them from simply disarming the station and fleeing.

[Wander]

I would frankly agree that currently wizards feel somewhat overtuned for rp. 1 wizard by itself can start a rampage that will basically stall the large majority of rp interactions for half a round using the standard evasion spells that most wizards choose. While this 1 wizard can definitely rp their actions what tends to happen is that this conflict overshadows all the other antags because it will take sec all their focus to deal with them which also usually involves constantly running about. Once you start throwing in 2 wizards, or a wizard and something like a large number of traitors buying the less subtle murder-oriented equipment this just becomes entirely overwhelming. I overall feel like wizards are not very suited for rp due to how their kit lends to creating very long rampages where the crew are not given much time to breathe. If there was a desire to keep them I would personally like to see them paired with less other additional antagonists so that the crew can at least have them as the focus without having things on top of the guy randomly teleporting into places and firing fire balls for 70 minutes after the initial escalation.

This is not to say they cannot work, it is just a statement of “on average” wizards paired with a large amount of other antagonists tends to create little spare room for rp to happen.

[Kateaclysm]

I can't really say much more than what's already been stated here. I very much echo wander here in that wizards command almost the entire round if they're even remotely experienced, which creates very little breathing room to RP or allow other antagonists / crew in the round to do much interacting.
Spend 30 minutes setting up a TTV / teleporter rig so you can taunt sec over the radio? Too bad, the wizard's been in a scooby doo chase with 80% of the security force after their third warning for fireballing the bar, and they brought a bunch of evasion spells, there's not going to be as much of an impact.

This isn't to say I haven't had *any* enjoyable wizard RP rounds... But they're unfortunately much less frequent than the ones where I hit the shuttle feeling more... exasperated and tired than anything. If there's a movement to keep them in, I'd very much like it if they were retooled slightly, or maybe given a slightly different spellbook with more RP-friendly spells. Polymorph... Golems, sticks-to-snakes... etc. Spells like those are inherently more interactive than teleporting around and leaving force walls behind you in a crowded hallway.

[Lord_earthfire]

People have been much better about actually RPing before they attack, but once they do, it is at its core a rampage antag, and as such, it's constant fighting until they die, (or with soulguard, until they die twice.) because there is no alternative. 

Sorry, but that's the case for any experienced antag.

There are inly a few situations i know off where, as antag, there is any form of return once you get into a fight with security.

It's a rampage, an endless chase, or you get caught and can either wait for your execution or stay cuffed/in the port-a-brig.

But my opinion on wizards is similar to what was before the post got necroed:

They need mire utility/silly spells. The list is limited to a degree you can have one or two neat gimmicky spells and then too much slots left... which makes most people go for evasion spells.

The RP they bring is geeat, though. They are an absolutely destructive force, if they wish to. This enables them to stay open and not be directly shut down (something i sadly see very often with open syndicate agents who try to go a diplomatic route with command...)

[Carton]

People have been much better about actually RPing before they attack, but once they do, it is at its core a rampage antag, and as such, it's constant fighting until they die, (or with soulguard, until they die twice.) because there is no alternative. 

Sorry, but that's the case for any experienced antag.

There are inly a few situations i know off where, as antag, there is any form of return once you get into a fight with security.

It's a rampage, an endless chase, or you get caught and can either wait for your execution or stay cuffed/in the port-a-brig.

I understand what you mean, but the difference is that wizards have a very short route to open conflict. A traitor can have an extremely long 70 minute leadup to their open violence in which they RP with both crew and security before they escalate to open violence.

Meanwhile a wizard generally has between 10-20 minutes before their rampage starts and it often lasts the entire rest of the game, during which time almost no RP is happening for anyone in security, the wizard themself, usually the captain, and often most of medical.