The relevance of Extended rounds on RP

[Cropsey]

I honestly do like extended rounds for the fact that there is not a massive overarching threat. You get the chance to mess with mechanics, have character moments, do harmless gimmicks without the threat (so much) of being eaten, exploded, shot or mauled. I do like it when admins use them to run gimmicks, even if they're small, but I like them anyways. Like the quiet days on the starship enterprise.

I do remember suggesting that they could be player-triggered- how, I've no real idea.

BUT OBVIOUSLY if you have too many shifts in a row like that it's going to suck. I don't think they should be able to happen multiple times in a row.

[mintyphresh]

I'm a big fan of extended shifts. Their weakness, though, is that there's no designated person to initiate activities. Just about everything players do in-game is player-initiated, but antags have a special mantle of expectation they bear to cause conflicts that create events and, if all goes well, tell a story. Without that designated role, a round can stagnate, especially if nobody takes charge and does something interesting.

The issue (one that I think has gotten worse since the way to tell if a round is Extended was removed) is that player attention is limited. Holding a big presentation on how to run the ABCU runs the risk of an antagonist interrupting it halfway through. At the same time, an antagonist might have significantly less crew to bounce off of if half of them are all in one room watching a presentation. I sure wouldn't want to plan a big event just for it to get grifed 4 no raisin.

Extended might benefit from an "event organizer" role-- the anti-antag of the gamemode. Something where they know they have "control" over the round, in a sense-- no need to worry about antags. Maybe their objectives are to throw a dinner, or lead an azone expedition, or hold a contest; like an antag role, they can choose to ignore it if they want. Could even implement a conspiracy-like team system or something (though I don't think that would work out).

Definitely agreed that there should never be consecutive Extended rounds, though, that sucks so bad when that happens.

[klushy225]

event organizer is such a good idea, and honestly should probably be available in regular rounds as well. While it is annoying to plan things to have them griefed, it can also be funny. like when I sewed guns to my arms, accidentally shot myself in the head by twirling my gun trying to impress the HoS, and became YEEHAW the gun safety cyborg. I held a gun safety presentation at the bar, only for it to erupt in a gunfight, while I was screaming at people to be safe with guns.

[Largeamountsofscreaming]

While the event organizer is a good idea to keep rounds going, it also seems like the job of... everyone?

Literally anyone has the capability to do something interesting and gather a crowd for it. Any command member could run a training event or a department event. Civilians all have the swing sign for a reason, because they can all do something in the bar or the chapel or the botany/rancher desk or anywhere else open. Science has tele-sci, though of course you could maybe find ways to make the other systems more interesting by making fun pills and showing off artifacts in fun ways. The Clown. Just them alone. And idunno, you could probably do something with medical if you tried. Install some bike horns in the clown's chest!

An event organizer to me feels like a staple-gun solution to people not doing anything interesting. We have so many roles that have such capability to make interesting rounds. I've hosted events as Captain, chaplain, bartender, chef, etc. I didn't need to be an "Event Guy" to host an event. I'm also aware that sometimes you'll have rounds where just no one bites to your gimmick or you die before you can do it, and I think that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. I encourage those who have that happen to not be discouraged and keep trying, but I also encourage anyone who passes by these events to make an effort to interact with people who seem to be trying to do something fun. Don't get too sucked in, there will be another round!

I'll say I know this is all easier said than done. Some days you just don't feel like being the center of attention or putting in a lot of effort at risk of losing all the effort to death. And I also think extended should probably be rarer, or at least non-consecutive. It's just from what I've seen in discussion occasionally in Discord that some think this game is just completely boring if a round doesn't have an antag, but I also think there's so many underutilized mechanics that people can use to facilitate interesting moments. That's just my few takes as someone who primarily plays civilian and captain. On a personal note, don't get attached too much to any ideas you have. SS13 is a goofy game where chances are you'll die randomly or have a vital piece of your gimmick stolen. Be ready to be malleable and remember that you can almost always do what you want to next round

Plus, if extended only had Event Organizer, that would be easy instant metagaming as you'd know it was extended by them joining.

[NanoDano]

After playing classic for years then coming to RP, being antagonist can be very difficult with the escalation rule. The rule doesn't really go into detail of how much escalation needs to happen before warranting killing someone, and in what situations you would be exempt from the rule(I.e someone walking in on you killing another person). Its particularly awkward to play an antagonist like ling, who can just sting a person and say "hi" while they pass out.

For me, this leads to antagonist being very stressful to play on rp, because not only are you expected to keep the round interesting, you are also expected to escalate every interaction or you risk getting banned.

Tldr i have a skill issue

[babayetu83]

After playing classic for years then coming to RP, being antagonist can be very difficult with the escalation rule. The rule doesn't really go into detail of how much escalation needs to happen before warranting killing someone, and in what situations you would be exempt from the rule(I.e someone walking in on you killing another person). Its particularly awkward to play an antagonist like ling, who can just sting a person and say "hi" while they pass out.

For me, this leads to antagonist being very stressful to play on rp, because not only are you expected to keep the round interesting, you are also expected to escalate every interaction or you risk getting banned.

Tldr i have a skill issue

preface im not a mentor and im not saying "this is how you should be interpreting it" (and always, when in doubt, adminhelp it out for some clarity and understanding)

like you, when i came from classic i kinda struggled with what exactly proper escalation was. took me a while to get there but it's not that bad. the way i see it done as like a changeling, find someone isolated, chat them up and then keep them talking while you sting.

as a vampire it's more or less the same thing. it doesn't have to be the most grandiose thing in the world but just to give people something to work with so their round isn't suddenly ended without any notice

[meaow589]

I remember when extend round and accident found special AZ from quantum telescope people really have great experience from it

[Kotlol]

preface im not a mentor and im not saying "this is how you should be interpreting it" (and always, when in doubt, adminhelp it out for some clarity and understanding)

like you, when i came from classic i kinda struggled with what exactly proper escalation was. took me a while to get there but it's not that bad. the way i see it done as like a changeling, find someone isolated, chat them up and then keep them talking while you sting.

as a vampire it's more or less the same thing. it doesn't have to be the most grandiose thing in the world but just to give people something to work with so their round isn't suddenly ended without any notice

Off topic talk here, but.. as a victim of antags (and antags like changeling). I like my own rules of "killing"
One is LOOC, asking if they are cool to be killed off. I only do this if I feel like the player still wants to do something themselves.
But I do have a minimum requirement of killing:
1: Was the victim hostile towards the antagonist? (Verbally or physically, if they punch you or throw stuff at the antagonist, it's esclated to kill)
2: Did the antagonist interact with the victim? (Did they talk, distract, show intent, try to make a small story. If so carry on)
3: Did the antagonist try to escalate? ("I hate alcohol, we should ban it!" It becomes a bar fight, antagonist blows up the bar)

If any of these happen. Congratulations in my eyes you are the perfect antagonist.
Note these are my own rules of antagonizing and is NOT ADVISED to follow. It's just a way to make antagging feel more inclusive.

--Back on topic----

Meoaw, that's why we want to know it's extended, since these are perfect times to go AZing and having fun there. Insted of: "Well if I go AZ, the antag might kill me there and that would suck!"

[mintyphresh]

While the event organizer is a good idea to keep rounds going, it also seems like the job of... everyone?

Literally anyone has the capability to do something interesting and gather a crowd for it. Any command member could run a training event or a department event. Civilians all have the swing sign for a reason, because they can all do something in the bar or the chapel or the botany/rancher desk or anywhere else open. Science has tele-sci, though of course you could maybe find ways to make the other systems more interesting by making fun pills and showing off artifacts in fun ways. The Clown. Just them alone. And idunno, you could probably do something with medical if you tried. Install some bike horns in the clown's chest!

An event organizer to me feels like a staple-gun solution to people not doing anything interesting. We have so many roles that have such capability to make interesting rounds. I've hosted events as Captain, chaplain, bartender, chef, etc. I didn't need to be an "Event Guy" to host an event. I'm also aware that sometimes you'll have rounds where just no one bites to your gimmick or you die before you can do it, and I think that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. I encourage those who have that happen to not be discouraged and keep trying, but I also encourage anyone who passes by these events to make an effort to interact with people who seem to be trying to do something fun. Don't get too sucked in, there will be another round!

I'll say I know this is all easier said than done. Some days you just don't feel like being the center of attention or putting in a lot of effort at risk of losing all the effort to death. And I also think extended should probably be rarer, or at least non-consecutive. It's just from what I've seen in discussion occasionally in Discord that some think this game is just completely boring if a round doesn't have an antag, but I also think there's so many underutilized mechanics that people can use to facilitate interesting moments. That's just my few takes as someone who primarily plays civilian and captain. On a personal note, don't get attached too much to any ideas you have. SS13 is a goofy game where chances are you'll die randomly or have a vital piece of your gimmick stolen. Be ready to be malleable and remember that you can almost always do what you want to next round

Plus, if extended only had Event Organizer, that would be easy instant metagaming as you'd know it was extended by them joining.

Oh, no, I was thinking about it being similar to a miscreant/antag roll where you could be, say, an Event Organizer RD, or an Event OIrganizer botanist, or something. People just need a little encouragement to take the risk of initiating roleplay sometimes, and I think something like that could be a good way to get something started. Having Event Organizer as a *job* sounds like a terrible idea, agreed.

[Largeamountsofscreaming]

Oh, no, I was thinking about it being similar to a miscreant/antag roll where you could be, say, an Event Organizer RD, or an Event OIrganizer botanist, or something. People just need a little encouragement to take the risk of initiating roleplay sometimes, and I think something like that could be a good way to get something started. Having Event Organizer as a *job* sounds like a terrible idea, agreed.

Ohhhh, that makes more sense lol. I can get behind it then! It's a small way to encourage people to do more out there gimmicks and involve more people. A small worry for me would be that it would sort of clash with people doing their own gimmicks without the organizer role. The last thing I'd want is for folks to to feel like they shouldn't try because they aren't the dedicated event organizer for a round. On that same vein, I also worry that it will go unused on folks that just don't want to do anything grand for the round and play their role. Assuming it isn't an obligation, like miscreant, I fear it would just go like miscreant where it was either completely ignored (though the risk for griefing isn't there which is a plus).

All these are just small things in the grand scheme. I'm still for it, along with another way for folks to better advertise their stuff. Maybe put more emphasis on the PDA party line or somethin. All in all I'm not a game designer, just a sucker for chill moments in space lol, but I do want everyone to have as much fun as they can

[Daisybell]

I love extended rounds! Though I understand they can be annoying, especially when they come one after another, but I've put together a little list of things you could do if you suspect a round may be extended and you and your fellow spacepeople are bored.

1. Start a prank war.  
This is by far my favourite, and has brought many smiles to faces. My most memorable prank war was when Asena (who was captain) and I, Kira, a staff assistant, became dedicated to the idea that Alex Wilo (HoS) should have pink scales. We set up a very complicated and intricate plan to trick him, and then we ended it with a villian-style monologue about hair dye

2. Make use of station facilities that are a little unloved  
I've seen many HoSii force their sec teams into making use of areas such as the gym, pool, diner and owlery. Structured wrestling tournaments or hiring the chef and bartender to cater for your pool parties, ignore skin cancer regulations and see who can get the best tan, make a surprise
party in the owlery for the AI, making a campfire in the owlery, dimming all the lights and telling ghost stories while you lay ontop of bedsheets
with a small stack of chips.

3. Improve (or destroy) departmental relations 
Engine all set up, and there's no crimers for sec? Make a game of hide and seek, sardines, or tag. Set the teams by department, and make everyone wear the departmental colour. Have a stupid prize to raise the stakes. Play capture-the-flag with your department coffee machines, and use the creamer bottles as the flags.

4. Set up something in the chapel. 
Lean into classic chapel shit, like marry two monkeys, someone dramatically dies using  the *deathgasp emote and give them an over the top funeral. Make a masquearde ball but set weird requirements, like you must dance with an object on the station.

5. Indulge in some very light crime. 
Set up a bonds-style heist of something in another department, or a beloning of a coworker. Steal their lunch. Take the sugar cubes. Steal the department's cleaning-mop-buckcet-robot-thing. Hold it ransom for a donut and a coffee.

6. Host a slumber party in the bridge 
Invite the crew in, turn down the lights, get all the  best bedsheets. Hire the bartender to  make some hot chocolate and the chef to back cookies. Ask the AI to play the bee movie. Scream whenever someone talks when its eepy time.

All of these can extend to be most of the shift, leave room for shenanigans, and can help encourage antags to join in and maybe get a little brave and do some certified cool escalation. 

[Kotlol]

All of these can extend to be most of the shift, leave room for shenanigans, and can help encourage antags to join in and maybe get a little brave and do some certified cool escalation. 

Sorry but this last setence made me facepalm and laugh. You are talking about EXTENDED, they are no antags in EXTENDED.

That said... most of this stuff you mention can be done during an antagonist round too (I think you mean that, cept the light crime and prank wars)
I do that in general as a Captain. Do lil silly gimmicks that is ment to make antags more willing to sabotage or play along with my gimmicks.

I outlaw weed? Now the antags can become drug dealers. (Heck one time I set up with botany and security to RAID their weed stash, but it didnt play out since the antagonist decided to go on a killing spree before security could do that D: )

I decide to make the AI, The employee of the month via a law? Sounds like a fun moment to try and steal it from the AI.

I put bounty on getting me a croissant like AA? Sounds like a good moment for an antag to find a croissant or force the chef to make one to get that AA.

Anyway back on topic.
----------------------------

You are basically saying Extended are the perfect time to do funny little things like slumber parties since no antags are around and people are bored.

[Daisybell]

aaaa sorry, I meant like,  you know how there's no way to tell in game if its extended or not? Like, you could do these if you think its extended, and if its not, and the antags are just nervous about escalation rules, they can use it as a way to crime, which would make escalation a lot easier.

[TDHooligan]

still think they can disappear. we get a lot of quiet rounds even with antags.

[klushy225]

yeah, I'm on the get rid of em boat. I think we get quiet rounds even with antags quite often anyways.