AI Camera, or "BAYSTATION IS BETTER YOU SUCK COG BLOO BLOO"

[Skunkrocker]

So yeah, can we improve the AI Camera system to the Baystation/TG system? Hopping around the camera like a spastic is a serious pain in the ass. For those who don't know, Baystation has a free range camera for the AI that can move where ever it wants to move, but areas that are obscured by walls or smoke or etc. turn into static rather than black darkness. This leads to a number of awesome things those servers can have their AIs do that this one can't:
1. Center on a player. Every time I have had to open a door for someone, I click their name to observe them then I have to scan the screen to figure out which one they are and what door they want open and sometimes I still don't know who or what they want because the camera that can see them sucks. On other stations, it focuses right in on the player, allowing you know exactly who they are and what door or whatever they want open instantly.
2. Find a console to turn on. First thing I'm told as an AI usually is "transfer x amount of credits to research please." Okay, that one is fairly easy but with the camera system it's still hard to get lined up where you can see the Bank Records computer to do the transfer. Further more, one of the most requested things I had to deal with when I was AI was the Telescience computer. Only one camera in the entire station can even THINK of seeing the TS computer. What a pain in the ass it is to line it up too, since one small misclick in movement and it'll send you flying past research to arrivals cameras!
3. Need to track someone down? Follow their movements precisely without feeling like a drunk epileptic flipping channels on the world's most annoying television. And if they're hiding in a locker, you know WHICH locker they're hiding in.

[Weavel]

I don't want a free range camera myself, I quite like the half-limit this system imposes but Jesus I just want some MORE cameras in general. Such a monumental constant pain to see some doors or simply moving around half the time

[Kaet]

Sometime ago I had an idea that would serve as a meeting point between free camera movement and fixed camera angles.
The AI would have a camera tracker(that nobody else could see(maybe traitor item could let you see it??(cyborgs???))) that can move around the station like a ghost.
And instead of showing the camera tracker in the middle of the screen, it would find the nearest camera and give the AI that view.
This would make the life of the AI that much easier while still giving it no more visibility than it already has.

[UrsulaMejor]

as someone who plays AI most rounds, I've never found the ai cameras inconvenient past the first week. I can understand how it might Fuck with some people who're new to the role, but honestly you can move around the station a lot faster than a ghost can once you get a feeling for where the cameras are.

maybe a compromise? the ai tracker naturally snaps to the nearest camera like it does now, but you can disable snapping

[Spy_Guy]

Medbay needs better camera coverage. Half the time someone needs to be let in or out I can't see them so I just have to go "Oh, I guess this is the door you're bleating about", open it and see if they go quiet. The camnet around the bridge / sec is also awful to manoeuvre through. Half the time I end up looking at the bridge when I ~really~ need to stop a cloakbastard from getting at the security stuff.

[Captain_Bravo]

The problem with Baystation's cameras is that it becomes immediately obvious when a camera is cut. For the most part, unless you're trying to find something specific and can't get to the camera, it's really easy as AI to miss having a camera here or there cut. If all cut cameras caused giant "OH SHIT SOMEONE FUCKING AROUND HERE" black areas to appear on the map, it would drastically limit the usefulness of disabling cameras.

[mozi]

The problem with Baystation's cameras is that it becomes immediately obvious when a camera is cut. For the most part, unless you're trying to find something specific and can't get to the camera, it's really easy as AI to miss having a camera here or there cut. If all cut cameras caused giant "OH SHIT SOMEONE FUCKING AROUND HERE" black areas to appear on the map, it would drastically limit the usefulness of disabling cameras.

you could make it so cut camera zones work like looking through them with mesons, terrain and fixtures visible but people are not

[Captain_Bravo]

That is a brilliant idea. I would actually be all for this with that addition. Just make it so when a camera is cut, the AI just assumes that whatever was happening in the room when the camera was cut is still happening. So it's only immediately obvious when either A: The entire station appears to have been depopulated, or B: When the AI watches someone enter a room and disappear.

[Preid]

I rather like the current system, It is in my humble opinion that if you really want to get into a blind spot then you should use the shells.

[Kaet]

That is a brilliant idea. I would actually be all for this with that addition. Just make it so when a camera is cut, the AI just assumes that whatever was happening in the room when the camera was cut is still happening. So it's only immediately obvious when either A: The entire station appears to have been depopulated, or B: When the AI watches someone enter a room and disappear.

That sounds like it would be a feature best reserved for placing pictures on cameras

[LunaticLawyer]

I'm just assuming that this place is where we're posting comments about the new Camera update. Two things:
1. Remove one of the two cameras in this corner:


2. Add a camera to the Head of Security's Room. If there is one there already, it's definitely difficult to get to.

[Kaet]

I've noticed that when tracking someone it shows you the view of the camera closest to someone. Which is not always the one who can actually see the target.

[Lavastage]

Honestly I think the ai camera system needs an update. it doesn't need to be free range but it can be annoying when you're just trying to get sight on that one spot but the camera system is making you go around in circles. its not usually a pain but it can get difficult at times.

[icarus]

sorry for kinda changing the focus of the thread but i think this is relevant

as of the "ai has no x-ray vision" update the AI now can't even see the outside of the core

the ai core is incredibly easy to break into from space if you're crafty, and half the time no one will come to save you so if you don't have borgs, you're dead

this along with the whole "you have to switch cameras if you want to see in a maintenance you have a camera in anyway" is just making the ai less and less fun to play and making it harder for it to survive

throw the ai a bone instead of more nerfs

[Convair880]

The changelog asked for feedback, so here is my opinion after playing six rounds with the new system. First things first: I do not oppose the removal of the AI's x-ray per se, just the current state of affairs.

1.) The change fails to address any of the system's real shortcomings. It was never smooth or very precise even on an empty server with little lag, and the absence of x-ray makes things more bothersome. Limited line of sight isn't a problem for an ordinary mob - your view is for the most part fixed and it's easy for you brain to relate what you can and cannot see to your current position on the map. For the AI, jumping from camera to camera is an abrupt and unnatural way of movement, so you are now faced with a horrible mess of piecemeal peeks and large patches of blackness flying all over the screen, which lack any degree of refinement, cohesion or smoothness. A typical example: you are moving down a main hallway and suddenly end up in a nearby maintenance tunnel with the view of said hallway completely blocked. I'm not trying to exaggerate here, it really is this bad (and disorientating to boot) for me.

2.) Though the blind spot situation has improved over the last two days, there are still areas and equipment remaining out of view. This can be fixed. What is probably more difficult to overcome is the issue of how hard it can be to focus on a person or object of interest. Another example: to access the AI intercom on the bridge, I usually have to move counter clockwise through the whole room to find the particular camera and hope I don't get to see bridge maintenance due to lag again. It's not possible to click on "invisible" cameras (the coordinates of which would be known to the AI) either.

3.) The tracking function defaults to the nearest camera, but quite often, that camera isn't useful at all. If the guy is stationary, you can attempt to switch to a better view on your own, but doing so of course breaks the automatic tracking. Because of this and the aforementioned general jerkiness of the system, I've basically given up on trying to follow somebody around manually (don't have time to work the popup list of targets, agent card etc).

4.) Theoretically, the AI shell should be more important now with the increased amount of blind spots. In practice, it's moving rather too slow and the built-in radio is still buggy. Leaving them parked somewhere is also an invitation for random assistants to beat them to pieces and they can't be replaced.

Please keep in mind that AIs spend ~95 % of their time using nothing but the cameras, and for all intents and purposes, this update made their job significantly less enjoyable. Reminder: I'm not against the removal of x-ray, however the current implementation is in my opinion unacceptable. To be blunt, the camera system went from "clunky, but workable" to "holy shit it's annoying all of the time". My apologies for the strong language.