The weird unspoken antag culture on classic that makes people uncomfortable

[Jimbo20]

It's not really a big deal because at the end of the day it's just a game, but I wanted to rant a bit because people have agreed with me on this before and said they have disabled antags for reasons like this

It's not nice that people seemingly have license to insult/loudly complain and then treat you differently round to round while holding a persistent character if you:
a. don't do much (either due to the antag thing you want to do taking a long time, you run into many setbacks, or you get the antag jitters, or you're new/simply not robust) -> "WHERE ARE THE ANTAGS, WHY THE FUCK DID THEY DO NOTHING" "Why are you taking up an antag slot, an antag slot is the most important thing in the whole entire universe" (ok thats a strawman but you get what i mean)
b. do too much (like that one black lizard with hair) -> ([actual vitriolic, personal insults that refer to the person behind the screen])
c. did something, but not in the way x y and z person would have liked (e.g. some people really do not like engaging with security and want to be stealthy)

I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to complain but it would be nice if people could just take things as they come without having to tiptoe like this, just go with the flow
(and maybe an increase to antag scaling so like, no 2 antags on 40 pop)

[Cherman0]

For what it's worth, public complaints about another players' conduct like that are against the rules, or at least officially discouraged. If you send a discord ahelp theres usually an admin who can hop in and tell people to cool it. Though since I've never really seen or heard of anybody getting official warnings for moderate post-round toxicity it will pretty much keep happening in the future.

And also to note, this happen in RP too. The complaints are usually different (ie didnt escalate enough, escalated too much, didn't "lose" to sec at the end of the round, evaded arrest/death, etc) but the general expectation of toxicity is the same. Any given round end theres maybe a 50/50 shot that people are complaining about not liking some particular antag's thing in the discord.

[Jimbo20]

For what it's worth, public complaints about another players' conduct like that are against the rules, or at least officially discouraged. If you send a discord ahelp theres usually an admin who can hop in and tell people to cool it. Though since I've never really seen or heard of anybody getting official warnings for moderate post-round toxicity it will pretty much keep happening in the future.

And also to note, this happen in RP too. The complaints are usually different (ie didnt escalate enough, escalated too much, didn't "lose" to sec at the end of the round, evaded arrest/death, etc) but the general expectation of toxicity is the same. Any given round end theres maybe a 50/50 shot that people are complaining about not liking some particular antag's thing in the discord.

I don't know if there's much that can be done about it other than for people to just like, acknowledge that the culture exists and try not to reinforce it. I'm a hypocrite because I have malded about antag stuff before and mostly everyone else has at some point - but it costs nothing to have a level of detachment and empathy (not as like an active FEELING but just in the back of your mind), meaning that instead of malding/bringing up meta shit and ruining the immersion, you don't say much about said thing or banter about it.

the thing that annoys me most about it all is people asking "where are the antags. do something" it's like asking someone to tell a joke right on the spot, it better be a good fucking joke

[Kotlol]

I did once saw we had antags and said: "We had antags? Didn't notice em."
To be fair I was a botanist that round so I guess they never antagged around botany.

However I did complain about not escalating as an antagonist several times.
Though...I litterly had an antagonist walk up, draw a gun and shoot me for no reason.
Or a changeling at the end of the round, drugging me infront of 7 people, drag me off into the vents and letting me be killed. Not even saying anything.

But I do understand antag anxiety is a huge thing. Heck I try to run gimmick antags al the time and some don't bite... Ooh well.

[Lord_earthfire]

Though...I litterly had an antagonist walk up, draw a gun and shoot me for no reason.
Or a changeling at the end of the round, drugging me infront of 7 people, drag me off into the vents and letting me be killed. Not even saying anything.

I just chine in here quick, because it's a bit off-topic: the person getting killed does not really need to be escalated with if the antag already killed like 5 - 7 people and is talked about all over the radio. They already did their share of escalation.

On topic:

I've told, admittably sometines rudely, people who complain about escalation/murderboning/tame antags after a round to shut up. You can also ahelp it, but telling someone to stop sends a message to other people around as well.

When this behaviour does fly, other people will begin complaining as well. Ahelping and moving on is, in my opinion, not enough: these people have to be actively and openly be stopped in their tracks for all to see.

Of course the admins intervene when a discussion goes too much sideways, but i personally feel like offloading all the work to them feels unfair. It should be the task of everyone to keep the atmosphere enjoyable for everyone (except the one who wants to spew toxic shit). And sonetimes it simply involves telling them that the chat is not the place for this (at best in a good manner, though).

Truth be told, i sometimes fall into that ranting behaviour as well and would like people to tell me to take a few steps outside amd touch grass for a change.

[Snowy :D]

I never understood why some people get so angry at an antag whenever they kill them. Like, that’s what they’re supposed to do. It’s very surprising to me when someone straight up says “fuck [antag]”, even if I’m not exactly a fan of what that antag is doing either.

Admittedly, I occasionally take part in the third thing. I could probably make list of antag behaviors that I don’t like. Although I don’t exactly expect antags to do things exactly as I would’ve and whatnot. It’s just that some things they do can make the round incredibly unfun for me and probably many others.

[Snoid]

ive definitely noticed this being a thing, glad someone else brought it up.

[KikiMofo]

If people are being shitty towards people because of what they did while antag then you should ahelp them.
Maybe if people start getting some warnings from admins they will calm down on this type of behavior.

[Solwra]

This is something that should be ahelped since it's pretty much targeted harassment if done to an individual as it often leads to metagrudging. Even if the behaviour isn't something that may warrant a ban, it's worth bringing it up for further record in case it's a common occurrence.

For people complaining about antagonist activity should just get muzzled or find things to do. Not sure what's the stance on this kind of behaviour but I'd personally just like to see an anvil dropped on them every time they complain about it. Anyone who complains about an interaction going in a way they don't like should be told that everyone is entitled to play their own way within limits and rules, there is no right or wrong playstyle if it's kept within the rules and limits (again, if the victim feels that the person they were interacting with was out of order they should ahelp it).

I'm not going to lie, I am guilty (and so a lot of people) of being salty about things and going on small rants about features, mechanics and playstyles, but I think scaling it to a level of personal insults and unnecessary arguing should not be a thing anyone does.