[MERGED PR] Cyborg movement speed rebalance

[github_bot]

PULL REQUEST DETAILS





About the PR
I'd like to preface this by saying that I think this should be testmerged before merging, I cannot do sufficient testing besides making sure my code actually does what I want it to do and the speed feel right on a local. I think my values are good, but it's hard to say without seeing them in practice.

This pr changes the movement modifier of nearly every single borg part in the game. Below is a chart of all the previous and new values, alongside a few presets (the rp meta is light borg w/ screenhead + treads). The human speed sus. is the speed of a base full health human after 10 tiles (the speed below that is 1.7).
<img width="660" alt="image" src="https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/assets/73148980/45a7da3a-fbb6-445c-a493-7fdee2bf7cf6">

The key playerside changes are as follows, each heavier part now has an increasing effect on movement speed. Light borg's movement speed is unaffected, but light borg with treads is ~30% slower. Every borg above light borg with the exception of heavy borg w/ treads is faster, but treads have relatively less impact on speed. Thrusters are now slightly better speed wise then treads in every scenario.

For code side changes, weight no longer effects movement speed as it just makes balancing these values harder to minimal benefit. The weight variable is left in code in case anyone wants to use them for future borg expansions, however that variable is not used for anything. Any dev tell me if you want it removed and I will do so.

Why's this needed?
In short, light borgs w/ treads are too fast, and heavier borgs are too slow. This should make heavier borgs more playable, and light borgs less desirable. Also its kinda weird that standard chests are objectively better then light chests in every way, like that isnt right.

Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Ikea
(*)Borg speed values have been changed all across the board. Treadless light borgs are the same speed. Light and heavy borgs with treads are now slower compared to before. Every other borg body type is faster, see pr for specific values.

PULL REQUEST DETAILS

[Lord_earthfire]

I agree that light borgs are too fast, especialy with trusters, but i think heavy borgs are too tanky to get a significant buff in movespeed. And going from 3.2 to 2.5 is quite much.

[Spyritdragon]

I can agree too that light borgs are a bit too fast, but as mentioned above I feel 3.2 to 2.5 / 30% is very harsh.

I'd love the other options than treads to be more viable, but having to go everywhere slowly is just no fun - the main reason that I tend to play with light parts is that running anything that either has no threads or is standard moves around significantly slower than a human, and it just feels like a pain to move about in. You can't even keep up with a normal human at a running pace, let alone someone who's going as fast as they can (for which I feel you should take dash-spamming into account, not just sprint speed). A speed module is faster, but should be considered a 'sprint' if you ask me, and is both clunky to use and drains significant power.

I'd still agree treads could use a bit of a nerf on light borgs, but gauging a lot of the borgs I play roboticist for regularly, I think the solution to the 'stale' meta lies a lot more in making the standard or heavier parts feel more viable, especially without treads, than nerfing treads outright. There's loads of borgs that use legs - its just always light because anything standard and up makes you painfully slow.

I feel it should also be noted a light borg is incredibly fragile, having limbs taken off in a few hits from anything vaguely blunt you have lying around, and having nothing to buffer them like crit on humans. Speed is one of the only way a rogued/antag borgs can stay out of the hands of a crew with incredibly powerful flashes around, and being able to at least keep pace with a dash-spamming human is a big part of that.

Maybe a cap to the max speed could be an interesting thought? Also, closely related to this issue is a long-standing bug that gives borgs a permanent speed-module boost when you using a harmspec (maybe only the multitool works?), for whatever reason - I think fixing that would also help with the worst of the speedyborg cases.

[Kotlol]

I don't think nerfing the speed is a good idea as a borg.

Insted... we need to give reasons WHY these borgs need to be made over "light frame speed"
Right now the downside of light frame borgs is they are squishy... but let's be real...

Every borg is equally weak to stun. Just one flash and boom... the borg is technically down.

What I think would be better is to make heavier borgs more reason to be build. Even with things like no screenheads.

So what I recommend is that we change some details on other borgs types then tweaking the speed.

Examples:
- Light borg chest lose their 3rd item slot
- Heavy borg heads are immune to flashes.
- Heavy borg arms consume less energy.
- Medium Borg legs reduce stun timers.

That kinda stuff is FAR more effective and MORE FUN then nerfing speed.
You can very easily stun lock borgs, wich is why light borgs are PREFERED since they can avoid being stunlocked easier then mr. slow and heavy.
If we simply change that... suddenly you get flavor in your borging then just: "I look heavy and it's cool"

[Ikea]

but i think heavy borgs are too tanky to get a significant buff in movespeed. And going from 3.2 to 2.5 is quite much.

Important to note this pr nerfs heavy borgs with treads a good bit (1.9 to 2.2), so your average heavy borg setup will be slower. The main reason for reducing the gap is for #17555 and making heavy borg w/ s. legs not completely miserable. If this pr and #17555 get merged, heavy borgs will be worse in every scenario.

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I'd love the other options than treads to be more viable, but having to go everywhere slowly is just no fun - the main reason that I tend to play with light parts is that running anything that either has no threads or is standard moves around significantly slower than a human, and it just feels like a pain to move about in. A speed module is faster, but should be considered a 'sprint' if you ask me, and is both clunky to use and drains significant power.

I'd still agree treads could use a bit of a nerf on light borgs, but gauging a lot of the borgs I play roboticist for regularly, I think the solution to the 'stale' meta lies a lot more in making the standard or heavier parts feel more viable.

For some additional context on my intents regarding this pr, I consider this bare minimum foundational work to begin to make heavier borg parts viable. I think no matter how much more stuff you give the heavier then light borg parts, if they feel sucky to play as, no one will play them. Additionally, if light borgs w/ treads are significantly faster then the other options, then everyone will use those as speed is useful in every scenario. This pr makes light borgs w/ treads no longer faster then a sprinting human, but instead ~ 20% faster then the average speed of a human when you account for sprinting. Base light borgs are still slightly faster then your average human for distances greater then traversing a department.

I do want to rework speed upgrade as well (and oil), but Ill need to make a design doc for that. I think certain borg builds (heavy meleeborg), have a need for burst speed to be viable (and also burst speed is just fun). However currently the speed upgrade allows you to traverse the station incredibly quickly and in some cases (ie janitor civborg or medborg w/ speed and artcell) can be incredibly oppressive to people just trying to do their job as they can get to anywhere faster then any human can.

For my future plans on how to make heavier borgs more viable outside of this, my main plans are 1. Make heavier heads have increased resistance to ejecting brains and 2. Give borgs thermal interaction (ie they can overheat) and make heavier borgs better equipped to deal with heat. Also Im very much for roundstart borgs being able to choose their body type (no treads though and probably no heavy).

[KikiMofo]

People don't understand just how strong armor heavy borgs are till they try to fight one that's been emagged and you got no guns.

[Ikea]

People don't understand just how strong armor heavy borgs 

That's why this pr overall nerfs em for most players (also the health values for most parts are probably in need of a rework and also combat in general should be expanded for borgs but that's outside the scope of this pr.)

[Ikea]

Im gonna bump this, please leave your thoughts on this stuff in general, it doesn't need to be long just express stuff like "I think light borgs should move even slower I hate them, also make all borgs slower I hate borgs grr" or "these changes look fine as is" or whatever other two sentence thing about your personal cup of teas for borg speed. Don't feel the need to put much thought into it (also please specify if youre refering to my changes or the game in present)

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[Spoodle]

I'm not the wisest person, but imo, this should just be testmerged and then all the cyborg players will be forced to give their input :devious:
Also imo, feeling things is more efficient than looking at numbers

[DasBrain]

So Cyborg Treads are now slower.
For humans too?

How can humans use Cyborg Treads more effectively than cyborgs?

Should we nerf humans with treads too, so their speed matches light w/ treads?
Then they are slower than without treads - and no human would want to get treads.

[Ikea]

So Cyborg Treads are now slower.
For humans too?

How can humans use Cyborg Treads more effectively than cyborgs?

Should we nerf humans with treads too, so their speed matches light w/ treads?
Then they are slower than without treads - and no human would want to get treads.

This pr only effects cyborg values and human values are outside of the scope. Technically this pr does not change tread values, it just makes other parts values better/worse. Either way treads on humans represent different balance concerns and have very little overlap so I see no need for them to be tied together.

[DasBrain]

I see. Treads do not exist in a vacuum.
Humans with treads being faster than cyborgs is bad.

The flash is already too powerful when used against borgs, and the only defense is currently: Don't get flashed. Speed helps with that.
Or get a reboot + teleport upgrade. Which requires mining.

I think the scope of this PR is too narrow and does not take into account how this changes the balance for cyborgs.

[Lord_earthfire]

I see. Treads do not exist in a vacuum.
Humans with treads being faster than cyborgs is bad.

The flash is already too powerful when used against borgs, and the only defense is currently: Don't get flashed. Speed helps with that.
Or get a reboot + teleport upgrade. Which requires mining.

I think the scope of this PR is too narrow and does not take into account how this changes the balance for cyborgs.

I think it does take into account the balance change for borgs, and i believe in a good way. I've seen bodyblocking heavy borgs as validhunters and even with flashes you have a hard time against them while security is chasing you. A medium-heavy borg with mechboot-speed, at best, shouldn't be a thing, really.

Borgs need a nerf. They are faster than humans and on top of that far more damage resistant or downright immune to many mechanics they logically should not be (e.g. electricity or acids)

The existance of flashes alone shouldn't be the reason to give them speed AND tankiness.

Important to note this pr nerfs heavy borgs with treads a good bit (1.9 to 2.2), so your average heavy borg setup will be slower. The main reason for reducing the gap is for #17555 and making heavy borg w/ s. legs not completely miserable. If this pr and #17555 get merged, heavy borgs will be worse in every scenario.

Ah, i missed that. Then i don't have any obvious things to complain about. I kinda would like to see this play out in a testmerge

[Ikea]

I see. Treads do not exist in a vacuum.
Humans with treads being faster than cyborgs is bad.

The flash is already too powerful when used against borgs, and the only defense is currently: Don't get flashed. Speed helps with that.
Or get a reboot + teleport upgrade. Which requires mining.

The reason why I consider it outside of scope is mostly because this doesn't change much with humans with treads going against borgs in a way that I consider super unacceptable. In the very specific scenario of a borg going against a human with treads, the only borg this seriously effects in a negative manner is light borg with treads. A key goal of this pr is to make light borg with treads less good, so I am perfectly fine with them being less good. 

This pr already changes a lot as is, so I'd rather take things one change at a time instead of toss a bunch of balance at the wall and hope it works out. I'm not against a tread nerf for humans per say (though I don't consider one needed as treads for humans as they're not a clear meta pick), but if one is needed, I'd rather see that a tread nerf is needed first.

[Mordent]

Looking at the before/after stated numbers, it looks like having light arms vs. no arms should actually increase a cyborg's speed, but I don't think that's what I've observed before (i.e. no arms is faster than light arms). Given that my understanding there based on that observation is flawed, could you clarify how a no-armed light cyborg with treads works, speed-wise?