Emag Cost effectiveness; Vs endless borg spam

[Silent Majority]

Heya. I've noticed the past few months that, particularly on rp, and with the increase in traitor rolls, that traitors are almost every single round I have observed with a traitor always chosen to Emag every single possible borg as quickly as possible.

While on classic this is less of an overt issue due to differentiations in rules, this often comes with little ecalation, and further, little engagement to the station as a whole via the antag. Instead its someone quietly making antagonist factories with very little interaction, rapidly ballooning the intended antags.

A syndicate cyber converter is long and takes times. Its extremely loud.

A mind hack cloner is long and takes time. Its extremely loud.

An emag is cheaper ensures every single borg can be made instantly an antag makes no noise and is vastly useful in a wide range of features and uses.

I would like to propose that the cost of the emag be raised from 6 to 8 or 9, to reflect a cost more similar to other items of its kind.


Conversely or in addition to, I believe it may be of merit to change an emag cards ability to emag borgs. The first borg is instant. A five minute cool down for a second. a 10 minute cool down for the third. a 15 minute cool down for the 4th. this way creating 4 antags would take a total of 40 minutes. 

This would further, put an emag to be more comprable to the increasing cost of thralling for vampires, another antag that rapidly produces powerful minions.

A change in such a way might, further, encourage use of syndicate borg frames and syndicate cyborg convertors.

Thank you for reading.

[DisturbHerb]

It would be easier to stomach the alternatives if they were actually viable in comparison.

[Silent Majority]

that itself is another issue. The emag is infinitely better and more useful the any of those things in basically every single way.

I suppose a third suggestion would be to do what tg did, and leave the emag as is, then make a second 4 point emagger for borgs with action bars AND a cooldown.

[Kotlol]

Emags are one of the most powerful traitor tools...

Not only does it make any borgs and robots go haywire.
It also has funny effects like "VIBE CHECK" gates.

But most importantly... slap it on a door or locker and it's open.

Personally I never use emags unless I get my hands on it accidentally, cause they are just too powerful and unfun!

[RubberRats]

For the record, I agree that roboticists emagging borgs en masse is almost absurdly easy compared to the amount of chaos it can cause, especially on RP. However, I feel like most of the solutions proposed here are a bit clunky. Cooldowns are weird and unintuitive, and IMO won't help all that much considering you really only need 2 or 3 really competent/slippery borgs to cause a huge problem for the station.

If the problem is mostly with emagging borgs, a more elegant solution would be to reduce their effectiveness. An idea I had been thinking about for a while was to give emagged borgs increased power consumption that scales over time. This would put a soft limit on their effective lifespan, with power becoming a serious concern by (times not exact) 30 minutes and almost completely unmanageable by 60. Emagged borgs will still make effective distractions and agents of chaos, but this will reduce their ability to run away with the entire round because a traitor sneezed on them. This would also give borgs a reason to not want to be emagged, which has been a problem in the past.

Overall, if you want more effective evil robots, you already have options. If you just want a few very capable borgs to assist you in being evil, use syndicate robot frames. If you want the station to descend into chaos, blow up the law rack or use the cyborg converter. There should be at least some risk involved.

[444explorer]

I'm not sure how I feel about scaling Power Cost, I'd be willing to play with it. I'm more so interested in a change involving the EMAG, though. Not sure what would be good. Cooldown doesn't seem all that good in my head. Action bars seem good, and the idea of a split EMAG might be a possibility? Dunno.

[Mouse]

this would all be solved if more borgs would chainsaw their emagger because it was funny

[444explorer]

Lol. I guess that is one solution, sounds like it'll make some good drama as well.

[Lord_earthfire]

this would all be solved if more borgs would chainsaw their emagger because it was funny

Yeah, i think that can be solved IC.

Some borgs forget that in an emagged state they can do whatever and don't need to antag but also don't need to listen to their emagger.

But i think if it still is an issue, giving easier access to killswitching borgs would work, e.g. a console in the bridge

[DasBrain]

Ohh, great.

Is it the borgs fault for letting someone swipe a funny card on them?
So they should face consequences such as increased power consumption or getting killswitched?

The problem is that borgs are emaged too easiely.
Very often without any word spoken. And the borg has to suffer the consequences - which range from termination (they are "valid" now) and a general distrust towards emaged borgs.

[Kotlol]

I think I got an EASY NERF for Emagged Borgs without touching the emag itself.

Everything breaks due to Emags. Machines attack ANYONE (I mean ANYONE) they see most of the time like vending machines.

Simply add a new flavor text for Emagged borgs:
"You have no master, you have no one to listen to, any MEATBAG you see needs to learn about robot surpremecy"
(Disobeying orders is encouraged)

Now emagged borgs are ENCOURAGED to disobey and possibly attack anyone.

The moment emags are used on the cyborgs... you as a traitor cannot get them to work along with you but you can just submit to them.

RP wise insted of "FREE WILL", Borgs are more encouraged to disobey and act like the masters.

[Solwra]

From personal experience as a classic player I'd say that emagged borgs are also a big nuisance to deal with mainly because they can cause alot of damage with no prior warning (other than the arc flash sprite that occasionally happens), this on top of the fact it causes alot of collateral damage thru distrust to AI and other borgs that may be innocent/not emagged.

I'd propose a different change, instead they now require the person to open up the borg to emag it. An emag could unlock the borg's interface/ disable it but the person would still need to go thru the effort of opening up a borg and perhaps adding some action bars (say 2-3 second??? (roboticist would come with an ability to do this action faster)) to prevent sudden borg uprisings that just turn the entire station into a plasmafired hellhole.

[DasBrain]

I think I got an EASY NERF for Emagged Borgs without touching the emag itself.

Everything breaks due to Emags. Machines attack ANYONE (I mean ANYONE) they see most of the time like vending machines.

Simply add a new flavor text for Emagged borgs:
"You have no master, you have no one to listen to, any MEATBAG you see needs to learn about robot surpremecy"
(Disobeying orders is encouraged)

Now emagged borgs are ENCOURAGED to disobey and possibly attack anyone.

The moment emags are used on the cyborgs... you as a traitor cannot get them to work along with you but you can just submit to them.

RP wise insted of "FREE WILL", Borgs are more encouraged to disobey and act like the masters.

In a sense, this makes emaging borgs more risky.
But you know how an emaged beepsky ends.

Sending someone to their death just by swiping an odd card on it?
I do not like it.

[Lord_earthfire]

Is it the borgs fault for letting someone swipe a funny card on them?
So they should face consequences such as increased power consumption or getting killswitched?

If they cause problems? Yes, that is exactly what the killswitch is for. Getting rid of problematic borgs.

People very often tolerate emagged borgs if they simply do not antagonize people.

[Silent Majority]

Im pretty sure you can't kill switch emagged. They aren't connected