[MERGED PR] Purgatives and dialysis machine rebalance

[GreenJelly]

I have not seen the dialysis machine used much, so buffing it to see if that makes it more attractive to use could be a good idea. This is with the caveat that I have not used the machine myself, so I do not know how efficient it is at the moment.



I do not have very strong feelings when it comes to nerfing the general purgatives. Charcoal is a very weak and somewhat RNG-based purgative, so I do not think it is in strong competition with the dialysis machine. Calomel does have the drawback of dealing damage, though it is a strong purgative otherwise. Pentetic acid is very strong, and could probably easily take a little nerf and still be very useful. Hunchback is a bit more on the gimmick side I think, with the massive risk to health when it is used. It does give the bartender a way to flush someone though, with the caveat that the person will probably be writhing in a pool of their own vomit in the process.



I am not in favour of nerfing targeted purgatives. They either have very specific applications that I think should be rewarded when used properly, or they are more like joke chems like in the case of atrazine removing THC/CBD. I do not think touching, for example, Milk's capsaicin removal will in any way affect the usage of the dialysis machine, which this PR is supposed to address.



Jelly

[Lord_earthfire]

According to the feedback, this PR now only nerfs calomel, hunchback and pentetic acid purgative values. I have not changed these values from what they were before.

the PR still also buffs the dialysis machine. the amount is unchanged from the initial PR as well.

I see that the other purgative chems, like charcoal, need their own PR with finetuned numbers/mechanics. Other purgative chems, like atrazine, are simply not worth the hassle or need to change, really.

[Decarcassor]

To be clear my big issue with pentetic acid isn't necessarily how fast it is, but the fact that it works on everything and has virtualy no downside. I don't think a numbers nerf would change anything to that. It will still be at the top of purgatives. It would still neuter any lasting consequences of poisoning on most RP shifts.

What pent need is a couple of bad chem intereaction and/or more harmfull side effects. Maybe it should damage cyber organs instead of healing them ? Maybe it hurt your non digestive organs ? Maybe the burn and brute damages need to be cranked up a ton ?

But having at least one bad chem reaction would be really nice, so aspiring poisoners traitors have something to work around a medbay full of pent acid and give doctors a bit of a challenge.

[aft2001]

Honestly more interactions between medicines and other chems, both positive and negative, would probably enhance the doctoring experience a good deal. Apex medicines like pent and perf having negative effects when combined with other medicines is, I think, a good idea. New players also aren't much more likely to get confused or overwhelmed, since these interactions should be for the 'advanced' medicines.

The dialysis machine is indeed neat, and I'd like it to be more commonly considered when I'm diagnosing/treating people, and the above would definitely help.

[TDHooligan]

yeah i wouldnt midn a pent rework, removing the purging entirely and replacing it with another neat buff instead would be neat

[Lord_earthfire]

To be clear my big issue with pentetic acid isn't necessarily how fast it is, but the fact that it works on everything and has virtualy no downside. I don't think a numbers nerf would change anything to that. It will still be at the top of purgatives. It would still neuter any lasting consequences of poisoning on most RP shifts.

This PR is just about the big purgative chems in general. I agree that we should maybe do something about specifically pentetic acid at some point, but i think that would be a PR that solely reworks that specific chem instead of one that tries to do a more general balance shift like this one.

[aft2001]

Reworking Pentetic acid to only purge certain substances like polonium, mercury, and chems that have some kind of 'metal' in their composition would be in line with its actual real life use. Perhaps it should, while in a patient's system, mostly/completely negate the harmful effects of being irradiated? So it becomes Polonium's greatest counter (...more so than it already is), I guess. If Pent were to be nerfed this way, making it slightly less of a headache to synthesize would be nice too.

Honestly I think part of the issue of underutilization of dialysis and overreliance on purgatives is simply habit. People are uncomfortable with change and prefer to stick with things they already know how to do (I'm people......) Being used to just dealing with the concept of "you can't purge poisons and heal with chems at the same time" is just kind of stuck in many people's minds I'd imagine. Sure they can be aware of dialysis but after figuring out how to best combat that limitation, they might just... not bother. I should probably try to use dialysis more though too lmao

[Waffleloffle]

question: what does medbay do about multiple cases of severe poisoning at once (such as in an artlab accident), should the dialysis machine become the de facto best purgative? I'm not against making the dialysis machine more central but the fact that there's, well, only one of it seems like a could be a complication. whether it's a good kind or a bad kind is something I'm entirely unsure of

[Kotlol]

question: what does medbay do about multiple cases of severe poisoning at once (such as in an artlab accident), should the dialysis machine become the de facto best purgative? I'm not against making the dialysis machine more central but the fact that there's, well, only one of it seems like a could be a complication. whether it's a good kind or a bad kind is something I'm entirely unsure of

Well that's simple. 1 Dialysis machine for accurate/fast puratives.

The rest has to be treated constantly till the machine is free.

So we got 1 on Dialysis, 2 in cryo tubes and maybe 1-2 being treated normally.