[PR] Farts to have 3 second cooldown

[Zamujasa]

If someone is spamming an emote that is loud and annoys people then someone else should go over and grab them for swirlies till they stop.
EMERGENT GAMEPLAY ACTIVATED

That was my suggestion. If someone's annoying you and refuses to stop, you should be able to just walk up and toolbox them.

[KikiMofo]

Dunno about tool boxing but definitely a beat down should occur to spammers.

[Zamujasa]

A toolbox, a punch to the head, grabbed and thrown out of wherever it happens to be.

[Kotlol]

A toolbox, a punch to the head, grabbed and thrown out of wherever it happens to be.

Isn't that considered grieving? If someone is spamming farts and you beat em up without being security... isn't that against the rules?

I am fine with beating up people who are clearly annoying, but... then I want a clear line of: "If you annoy your fellow crew, prepare to be toolboxed"

[Zamujasa]

I personally don't think that punching someone who is annoying the shit out of you is griefing. It's possible that I don't share the same opinion as the rules or other admins, but if someone's doing something to annoy everyone and refusing to stop, you should be able to rough them up a little bit. I likened it to someone trespassing who refuses to leave; you should be able to throw them the fuck out.

If someone was standing next to you and refused to stop screaming over and over, you should be able to do something about that without having to whine to security and get the rent-a-cop squad to show up.

[UrsulaMejor]

Given that people can basically move around and act mostly normally until they're in crit, at which point you've basically killed them if they don't get help, "just beating them up" isn't going to really do anything to an annoying fart spam guy since you'd have to break the rules to *actually* stop them.

At the same time, if someone beats you into near-crit, you're well within your rights to fight back. So now this is a lethal brawl. Even if no rules are technically broken (you beat them up a bit to try to make them stop, they fight back to stop you from beating you up, you kill them to stop them from killing you, none of which was against the rules), this leads to "valid baiting" behavior like how TG has.

People will try to annoy you to the point of beating them up so they can use "Self defense" as a point to kill you. When we go look at the logs later, it will be difficult for us to parse if they were valid-baiting or if this was just a fluke of a moment, since intent that's clear in the game is harder to see in the logs without witness testimony.

Overall, it's a worsening of culture to solve this sort of problem with "just beat them up." It's less clear cut than stealing something, breaking a window, etc. leading to you getting beaten up

[Kotlol]

Overall, it's a worsening of culture to solve this sort of problem with "just beat them up." It's less clear cut than stealing something, breaking a window, etc. leading to you getting beaten up

I kinda agree to this...

"in my opinion" if security can confirm this person is spamming and harrasing someone, they are essentially "Self-antagging" 
Though I can see this being a weird grey line. This is just one of those moments where someone purposely is using game mechanics to annoy others... shouldn't end up a rule or change to avoid such a situation again.

But this is strict guidelines for "FART SPAMMING"
If anything.. fart spammers can be easily punished by security.
"For polutting the air with your disgusting habbits, your butt gets removed."

I still don't get why we can't just remove people's butts if they spam farts and cause annoyance? It's litterly an ingame mechanic to do so.. and it's funny too.

[According_tome]

I like the idea, this stops the requirement of pressing f button repeatedly for engineering and doesn't allow the fart spam in general.

[Zamujasa]

I like the idea, this stops the requirement of pressing f button repeatedly for engineering and doesn't allow the fart spam in general.

This is explicitly not fixing the engineering problem; you just need to press F slightly less often but for just as long.

Given that people can basically move around and act mostly normally until they're in crit, at which point you've basically killed them if they don't get help, "just beating them up" isn't going to really do anything to an annoying fart spam guy since you'd have to break the rules to *actually* stop them.

At the same time, if someone beats you into near-crit, you're well within your rights to fight back. So now this is a lethal brawl. Even if no rules are technically broken (you beat them up a bit to try to make them stop, they fight back to stop you from beating you up, you kill them to stop them from killing you, none of which was against the rules), this leads to "valid baiting" behavior like how TG has.

People will try to annoy you to the point of beating them up so they can use "Self defense" as a point to kill you. When we go look at the logs later, it will be difficult for us to parse if they were valid-baiting or if this was just a fluke of a moment, since intent that's clear in the game is harder to see in the logs without witness testimony.

Overall, it's a worsening of culture to solve this sort of problem with "just beat them up." It's less clear cut than stealing something, breaking a window, etc. leading to you getting beaten up

My disagreement with you is that:

1. You assume every escalation is going to result in murder, because there's no other way to get someone to stop

That's why you beat them up, and if they don't stop, yes, you beat them into crit. That's the whole point of someone being annoying: do something about it.

This same argument leads right into why people don't fight back against antags until they're 200% confirmed, because otherwise Oh No I'll Get A Talking To.

2. People fighting and killing themselves as non-antagonists is not a universal bad thing. I already know you're going to write some long-winded argument against this: I do not care. This is a social deduction game where the roles of players is intentionally not clear. Sometimes mistakes will happen. If I go out of my way to annoy the shit out of you in a "I'm not touching you!" way I fully expect to be beaten up or arrested for it.

3. If it really is such an epidemic that people will use this as a way to get people to attack them until they can lethal in return... then the problem solves itself? If you get a report that Jon Shits murdered someone over farting, and you look at the logs and see Jon Shits instigated fights with several people... do something about it, because that player is clearly doing self-antagging shit. We have notes for a reason. You can just leave a "I suspect this person is being shit by getting people to fight them". We already do this.


All I see of your points is "I don't want players to have conflict outside of sanctioned roles" and "This lets players be bad sometimes and that makes my job harder". Which, valid, I guess, but also conflict is good. Otherwise you end up with the current status quo, where everyone complains about people being mean but nobody wants to do anything about it.

I mean, christ, the mere suggestion of "just punch someone who's annoying you" was replied to with "but that's grief!" People do not feel empowered to actually do anything themselves and instead rely on Security or someone else handling it for them.


---

Edit: As a point, the "it's hard to figure out" is a completely made-up excuse. If you can look at the logs, you can very clearly see if Jon Shits is mashing the F button, and you can very clearly see when someone attacks them for it. If it's still somehow unclear who did what you add a note to both players saying "got in a fight with (other player) over farting", and when you find the person who accumulates three of these you've found the problem player. It is not that hard.

[UrsulaMejor]

My disagreement with you is that:

1. You assume every escalation is going to result in murder
2. People fighting and killing themselves as non-antagonists is not a universal bad thing.

3. If it really is such an epidemic that people will use this as a way to get people to attack them until they can lethal in return... then the problem solves itself? If you get a report that Jon Shits murdered someone over farting, and you look at the logs and see Jon Shits instigated fights with several people... do something about it, because that player is clearly doing self-antagging shit. We have notes for a reason. You can just leave a "I suspect this person is being shit by getting people to fight them". We already do this.


4. All I see of your points is "I don't want players to have conflict outside of sanctioned roles"

5. As a point, the "it's hard to figure out" is a completely made-up excuse.

1. No
2. Agree
3. I am not going to ban someone for farting too much. You and I have fundamental disagreements over systemic fixes vs administrative fixes. I prefer systemic fixes. You prefer administrative fixes. We aren't going to be able to convince one another.
4. I would never make that point, nor do I agree with that point. Players having conflict outside of sanctioned roles is part of the game.
5. See 3

[KikiMofo]

But administrative fixes are the reason we have admins in the first place. If someone is being a shit then get their shitty asses outta here, eventually the shitty people spamming or whatever are gone and the problem is dealt with. This goes back to my first post in this thread of not changing the system for EVERYONE just to deal with a couple of jerks. Remove the jerks and people are happy. Well except the jerks but their happiness comes at a detriment to others so fuck em.

[warcrimes]

i f hthe problem is "engineerings fart 2 much" just remove fartmos u coward's
*or* ,make tjhe filled canisters purchaseable????? from "qauter master" ?
also please delete juicser schweets if this makes ur descision easier.
+1 to cooldown and +1 to just remove fart emote outright, it's what you want!
dont lisen 2 tha h8rs
much love, floating away int o the distance: me, also lmao.
catch me l8r

[Frank_Stein]

Pin someone down and rip their ass off to stop them from farting

[Zamujasa]

3. I am not going to ban someone for farting too much. You and I have fundamental disagreements over systemic fixes vs administrative fixes. I prefer systemic fixes. You prefer administrative fixes. We aren't going to be able to convince one another.

okay, but see, we've skipped an important step here

we would not banning people for farting too much

we would be banning people because they use that to provoke someone into attacking them, and then using that as an excuse to escalate to murder. if someone is constantly starting fights and always ending as the victor and neither person involved is an antag, that's shitty behavior, whether it's because they're farting too much, or throwing things around, or making a mess, or whatever

if they get killed because they farted too much and refused to stop, then, uh, maybe they should not do that then!

[Tyrant]

i f hthe problem is "engineerings fart 2 much" just remove fartmos u coward's
*or* ,make tjhe filled canisters purchaseable????? from "qauter master" ?
also please delete juicser schweets if this makes ur descision easier.
+1 to cooldown and +1 to just remove fart emote outright, it's what you want!
dont lisen 2 tha h8rs
much love, floating away int o the distance: me, also lmao.
catch me l8r

Amazing incredible message. Nice to see some actual positivity for a change

Also Fartmos removal was also an idea, but i figured i'd do this first to test the waters and gauge opinions. In hindsight it should have been pr'd the other way around.

thank you