The old longer shifts vs the now shorter shifts.

[Kotlol]

We've all been playing SS13 for a while and a while back, RP got a 30 min cut on their shifts for the better of most, but sometimes we wonder if we can have those 30 mins back to enjoy some of the fruits of our labor.

So today I wish to discuss the idea if we should have longer shifts on both classic and RP.. or leave things be?
Or maybe mix it up? Or split the servers into "short and long"

Eitherway.. I think it's time since it's been a long while since things were changed.

As for me...
I miss the older longer shifts more then enjoying the shorter ones.
As an antag I feel like I just ran out of time before I could do something big and have to rush to do something crazy before the shuttle arrives.
But I do recongise that security most of the time has nothing to do in those 2 hours.

Also classic people... I don't come often to your server, but don't you sometimes wish your round can be extended by 15/30 mins sometimes?
Especially if the antags die on their own stupidity or just didn't do much?

Anyway... let's debate this propperly and see if there is even a "need" for longer shifts to justify even bringing longer shifts into a rare rotation.

[Lord_earthfire]

Since 90+ minute shifts are fairy common on RP, i think this is something that will most often happen on RP. But in general I think the problem is the amount of time different departments are occupied with their tasks.

Engineering? Botany? Ranching? Chemistry? Fuck yes, these can tinker around with their mechanics for hours and many of their projects can take up 40+ minutes. The engine can always pump out just one more GW of power.

Anyone tried to build new rooms, fully powered and all kind of jazz? Yeah, you were working 60+ minutes on it, guess the shift is almost over and noone cares for that sweet stuff you build anymore.

On the other hand:

Quartermaster? They kinda hit 1million budget 30 minutes into the shift and ponder if they should get phasers and play some laser tag or contribute anything usefull?

Medbay? Their mechanics are shallow anyway and they can only play out so much coffee-break RP. Maybe robotocists can get 30 security helmets to try to get an underage MD sober (and ultimatively fail at that), i don't know...

Security? Half the antags are neutered/dead at the 60 minute mark. Coffee-break RP it is... or trying to take botany their weed away (which subsequently makes botany create more weed)

Mining? They got concussive uquill hammers with syreline shafts at 40 minutes and floored their whole department in gold at the 50 minute mark. Maybe they will start a war with a nanite asteroid, when bored.

In general, i think the lenghts of gameplay the systems provides and thus RP opporunities is hella unbalanced. I personally would love 120 minute shifts, but i mostly play chemistry/service/engineering, so i am biased.

In general, with how the systems currently are, i think it isn't a good idea. We need deeper mechanics in multiple departments and maybe even a more enhanced midround antag system, maybe adapt some principles from /tg ghost roles and midround antag spawns.

And on classic, there is the problem of that few powergamer who just don't force shuttle calls and like to waste time stalking maintenancy while the singulo is eating 70% of the station and the captain and rest of the crew hide at the radio station.... Adding 30 minutes on top of that doesn't sound like a good idea.

[saccharineChampion]

Also classic people... I don't come often to your server, but don't you sometimes wish your round can be extended by 15/30 mins sometimes?
Especially if the antags die on their own stupidity or just didn't do much?

In my experience, that (antags dying out on their own or not doing much) generally makes people on Classic want the shift to be shorter, certainly not longer; those who want the round to go even longer in those cases are the exception, not the norm.

[Waffleloffle]

god please no more 2 hour rp shifts by default those were so fucking draining

[Petey]

If people really want to stick around for half an hour longer, then there's always the option to recall the shuttle. Two hours is also a lot of time to invest into a single shift of Space, not everyone has that kind of luxury.

[Kotlol]

If people really want to stick around for half an hour longer, then there's always the option to recall the shuttle. Two hours is also a lot of time to invest into a single shift of Space, not everyone has that kind of luxury.

The problem with recalling shuttle is the fact it has to be called in again after some time.

Anyway this ain't a suggestion but more a dicussion if people want these things back or consider it, rather then: "We got a "system" for recalling shuttles."
Since the reverse is also true if we had long shifts and say: "Well if you want a shorter shift just call shuttle."

Anyway Lord_earthfire brings up some amazing points how indeed, some departments can be done in 30 mins with their personal stuff, while others allow bigger and better things that take A LOT OF TIME! (like building a disco room)
This is stuff I didn't even think of how some departments can hit an end game and then have nothing to do... while others are making something else with the endless creativity.

[UrsulaMejor]

I originally shortened the round length because when playing, I felt myself being so completely drained after 90 minutes that i needed another shift to start to refresh or, more likely, cryo and then forget to ever come back in time for the next round.

Even running events as an admin, 90 minutes of doing the same thing is incredibly draining, and pivoting mid round isn't ideal because you don't have enough time to really enjoy the next thing and you'd rather start fresh with more time

I expressed this stuff among the staff and players and the response was mostly positive toward shortening it; remember, the shuttle takes time so these are actually 100 and 130 minute long rounds, not 90 and 120.

120 minute rounds means you also only get 4 rounds in a day if you play the entire day (8 hours of ss13 is a LOT), which means that dying during the round (and deciding not to respawn) can totally eliminate all the time you had with waiting for the next round and not getting to play

I think that the 90 minute mark is the sweet point between having time to do almost everything, and having so much time that there are only 4 rounds a day and you want to quit playing by the time you're done with only one of them

[Garash]

Good thread, people should be directed here when they complain in OOC/Discord about a shuttle call that they feel was too early.

Though my personal, classic focused, take is that earlier shuttles are good. There are people who died and are looking forward to the next round. I wish ghosts were considered more when looking at shuttle vote results they can't participate in.

Once you've given antags their time to shine and they either took it or won't take it, getting new ones is good.

As for non-antag in-game projects, I feel like anytime you do something, you'll likely get experience and be able to do it faster the next time. So although it'll be frustrating to have the shuttle come before your work is finished, it gives you a fresh new round letting you start at the first minute. You can do so much with a min maxed streamlined process.
Also that frustration will happen in revs/blobs/nukies rounds no matter what.

[DisturbHerb]

120 minute rounds left me emotionally and physically drained, to where I would want to stop playing. The last 30 minutes especially felt like a slog when it felt like there was no end in sight. I do not want to return to that state of affairs on a regular basis.

[Kotlol]

I like to thank Ursula and Garash for adding some insightful posts to this topic.

Ursula's especially added the most insightful to see it from the devs point of view.

The whole reason I started this topic, because I feel like I miss having the perfect amount of time to do the things I like during a shift more then I thought.
This was never a cry to "Return the old shifts"
But more an insight of the whole debate and if there is a certain need for longer shifts on both types of servers.

I can say this thread is a huge success bringing out the intent of the debate.

Though I like to add something too.

Do we think that if we have an "Overtime" shift with the intent being that everyone knows they got more time to do things would be something you like?
NOT THE RETURN OF LONG ONES, but simply a shift that has a shuttle call (thats uncancelable) after the allotted time.

[PowerfulXtian]

I'd like to mention that more rounds means more chances for antagonist. So there's that too. People want to be the bad guy, too!

[Dhaidburt]

Do we think that if we have an "Overtime" shift with the intent being that everyone knows they got more time to do things would be something you like?
NOT THE RETURN OF LONG ONES, but simply a shift that has a shuttle call (thats uncancelable) after the allotted time.

I like the idea of giving the round more time to breathe if it's planned for near the start. That way people know to even try for the crazy nonsense! I don't think it should be a random game mode though, an overtime greenshift could be torture if nobody is doing anything.

Buut, if it's voted upon, maybe during map votes or in the voting booths, the round timer could automatically change to Overtime with the option to call the shuttle if need be. 

Now, would I vote for that? Probably not. But would be neat to know that someone somewhere has a plan to use those two hours to their fullest.

[Kotlol]

I'll make a seperate suggestion topic on this "Overtime" idea I just threw out , with debate how to implement it.