The Roboticist's Dilemma

[Kotlol]

 On Goon, people usually only need roboticist to replace a failing organ, and occasionally want an organ upgraded just for the upgrade itself. This also ties into roboticist having something to do. 

I'd like to add, this isn't even a robotcist thing but a medbay thing.
Even the medbay fabricators can make organs and give surgery to someone who's dieing. Just in case the robotcist isn't available.
SO ITS NOT EVEN A ROBOTCIST THING!

This is why I think the robotcist needs to do more then just "maintain cyborgs" and "upgrade humans who want it."

It needs a way to develop more stuff. And while you say "Mechsuits and other bots"
I'd say we can do better then that.

Wich again my suggestion is giving them robobuddy access and also mod things.

I would love mechsuits too, but...considering how classic works. I fear every robotcist will rush a mechsuit and validhunt OR go antag to do mechsuit rampages on classic. That said...a lot of past suggestions has things like "Robot arms like Doc Ok." would be fun ideas too.

Another suggestion was that upgrades would be developed like genecists discover new mutations. Allowing Robotcists to develop different perks on implants and such.

[Dhaidburt]

I would love mechsuits too, but...considering how classic works. I fear every robotcist will rush a mechsuit and validhunt OR go antag to do mechsuit rampages on classic. That said...a lot of past suggestions has things like "Robot arms like Doc Ok." would be fun ideas too.

I'm not familiar with mechsuits on other servers, but honestly there's already a pretty good way to ensure they aren't rushed at roundstart. Same for industrial suits and mechboots, materials that can only be obtained from mining! And if mining is dead or slacking off, you can ask one of your silicon buddies to go out and mine for upgrades for them and mechsuits for you. Win-win I'd say.

[Wisemonster]

The mechsuits was less of a suggestion and more of an example of how robotics can do something other than make a bot/maintain and upgrade cyborgs. The mechs robotics can make on other servers can let roboticist interact with other departments by either building em a mech, or selling one for cargo. Closest goon has to something like this is sticking a bot into a mail chute and sending it to a department, though the bot staying there is unlikely due to how bots tend to wander when performing tasks.

[Kotlol]

I would love mechsuits too, but...considering how classic works. I fear every robotcist will rush a mechsuit and validhunt OR go antag to do mechsuit rampages on classic. That said...a lot of past suggestions has things like "Robot arms like Doc Ok." would be fun ideas too.

I'm not familiar with mechsuits on other servers, but honestly there's already a pretty good way to ensure they aren't rushed at roundstart. Same for industrial suits and mechboots, materials that can only be obtained from mining! And if mining is dead or slacking off, you can ask one of your silicon buddies to go out and mine for upgrades for them and mechsuits for you. Win-win I'd say.

That's exactly what bottlenecks the robotcist anyway....

Any fun items are locked behind mining stuff. While mining can "self sustain" their upgrades. The robotcist can't.
So if we put mech suits behind mining. It will just have the same problem as cyborg upgrades.
"Can't do anything till mining gives me stuff"

So we will make a new way of interacting and lock it behind the same problem for robotcist to do anything else.

I do want robotcists to interact with other departments more and have people try to find em.
Wich "again" I want to give them Robuddy access. And maybe add a place where the robotcist can make em do other things.
And the fun part is... it's not gonna change much in robuddy metaing, cause science ain't doing it.

[Silent Majority]

As a long time roboticist main..though joy for over a year... the biggest issue is the only way to give roboticists more is to take away from cyborgs. My best suggestion would be:

Allow a human to use a wrench on a chest open, wires not oit borg to apply a tune up. Identical to oil, stacks, 20 secons for 3 minutes.

Improve cyber limbs. Maybe make them have a better grip or deal more damage in exchange to electrical vulnerbility?

Allow specializes sub modules to be created at high cost to give borgs new.utility that require someone to install into their frame
Examples:
Ghost drones cardboard rcd
A repreasurizing augment
Improved mining tools
A built in pill/patch manufacturer using carried fluids
Upgraded fishing rods
Cement dispenser
A built in packet sniffer
A serving tray
A feed grinder.

[KikiMofo]

Roboticist is one of my favorite jobs. I think it's fine as it is though I would like somehow to be able to research neat experimental borg upgrades or stuff I can stick on people. We use to have that a LONG time ago where you could research in robotics.
I would also enjoy being able to make mechs but that's not going to happen.

[Cal]

Simple fix: make it so organ damage cannot be repaired, or the max HP gets lowered the more it's damaged.

You WILL need a new one eventually

[Lord_earthfire]

Repairing on borg limbs and healing on organs/cyberorgans reducing max life sounds like a really neat idea.

[Lord_earthfire]

Allow specializes sub modules to be created at high cost to give borgs new.utility that require someone to install into their frame
Examples:
Ghost drones cardboard rcd
A repreasurizing augment
Improved mining tools
A built in pill/patch manufacturer using carried fluids
Upgraded fishing rods
Cement dispenser
A built in packet sniffer
A serving tray
A feed grinder.

I think we can take a look at how ss14 handles modules. Instead of stuff like "engineering module" they got single modules for cable work, materials and other tool categories. They can stack up with a certain amount if these, allowing more customisation.

It would be worth to look at ripping up the cyborg modules and create modular toolsets. This would allow us stuff like e.g. move the rcd of engineering borgs into a submodule the robotocist could work on aquiring. It would also enable us to give robotocist traitors a module that, for example, adds predator revolver with ammo synthesizer to their syndicate borg.

In general, such a system would enable robotocists to customize borgs and would allow us to cut down the evergrowing lists of items we need to give borgs so they are able to do all jobs. Instead, we can just add a "angler" or a "rancher" module and be done with it.

[babayetu83]

roboticist has always felt like a bit of a half-baked role. they're not as well-equipped for medical work as a standard doctor, but they never really have many concrete responsibilities once the AI has a functional shell. they get turned to for cybernetic surgery, sure, but the only thing really making that their job is the fact that the robotics fabricator is behind their door. with the increase of silicon self-sufficiency as of late, roboticists have found themselves with fewer and fewer things to do for the station, which I find to be a massive shame

one could argue that roboticists may simply be doomed to the same fate as mechanics: being folded into a more fleshed-out role at some point due to their lack of unique station tasks. I'd like to find a way to prevent that. I'm a fan of the roboticist role for several reasons - conceptually there's a lot of potential, the uniform's really cool, it's a pretty good Starter Medical role, it's nice to have a role that can keep Human Players and Silicon Players from stratifying into two separate groups, et cetera et cetera. there's a lot to like, on paper. the issue is that, in practice, their niche is very shallow at best

my main question for this thread is: how can we expand the capabilities of roboticists while maintaining synergy with both silicons and the organic members of the station? I think a nice starting point would be giving them a console that gives them a list of every active silicon on-station, along with serial numbers and every name that silicon's been under, and maybe their last recorded location on-station (though this may be a pretty large balance concern). something like this could be useful both in the case of locating emagged/compromised borgs, or reclaiming the parts of one broken by an antag's destruction. either way, let me know what you think and feel free to pitch your own ideas too

the main problem i feel is people will scream their head off if they see you hauling a dead body to robotics. borg is treated like a punishment role for whatever ungodly reason

[KikiMofo]

Yeah what babayetu said. For some reason people feel like you are ruining peoples rounds by borging someone instead of cloning them. Whenever I played roboticist in the past couple years people would just run up and smack you and steal the body or break into robotics to take the corpse back. It's really messed up.

[Kotlol]

Borging needs to feel like a via-able alternative rather then: "Oh I am stuck."

There is a reason players like myself do not like borging as much due to the fact we are tied to listening and we cannot be "goofy"

For example: I like playing chaplain... but as a borg, most of my goofy antics would be seen as "disobeying laws" (even though they aren;t)

I tend to see borgs as "You are there to fill in slots"
Also if you are a security main... borging basically makes you feel bad due to brobocop.
Seriously... can we just split it now and make the security borg be slightly more effective but not have weapons?

Anyway... if we want more people to play borg funsies. We need to give the robotcist more ways to customize borgs so when a good robotcist is at the table, happy borgs will be going around.

[babayetu83]

Borging needs to feel like a via-able alternative rather then: "Oh I am stuck."

There is a reason players like myself do not like borging as much due to the fact we are tied to listening and we cannot be "goofy"

For example: I like playing chaplain... but as a borg, most of my goofy antics would be seen as "disobeying laws" (even though they aren;t)

I tend to see borgs as "You are there to fill in slots"
Also if you are a security main... borging basically makes you feel bad due to brobocop.
Seriously... can we just split it now and make the security borg be slightly more effective but not have weapons?

Anyway... if we want more people to play borg funsies. We need to give the robotcist more ways to customize borgs so when a good robotcist is at the table, happy borgs will be going around.

well you have quite a bit of latitude as to what you can do as a cyborg. what i like to do is find some head of staff to authorize me acting goofy and if somebody (who is not another head/captain/hos) tells you to quit it that head's order supersedes theirs. people will also generally be less uptight if you're helpful (helping fix things, saving people's lives, retrieving stuff for people). people think it's the end of the world to be a cyborg when all you have to do is:
 follow direct orders (the devil's really in the details, if people are really vague or unspecific there's a little bit of wiggle room for how you can interpret it, as long as it doesnt break rules or violate your other laws) 

don't hurt people/engineer scenarios that would cause people to get hurt or die

don't let yourself get destroyed (simple but basically a nothing law, pretty standard gaming behavior to preserve yourself).

there's also something else worth considering: if somebody is being a jerkass towards you about something to the point of making you not want to play a specific job or role, consider adminhelping it.

[Lord_earthfire]

Yeah what babayetu said. For some reason people feel like you are ruining peoples rounds by borging someone instead of cloning them. Whenever I played roboticist in the past couple years people would just run up and smack you and steal the body or break into robotics to take the corpse back. It's really messed up.

I think cloning needs to become much more limited for this to change. Cloning defects were a nice first try, until they got nerfed again.

Borging could become the less-effort method, not cloning.

[Kotlol]

Here's dumb idea number 5:

What if we have "Borg clone bodies"?
Or
Synthetic borg bodies?

These bodies are cyborg in nature, but they work like human bodies mechanically. (aka clothes , hands and such)
No laws to follow...
But the down side is... no food buffs, no AA from being a borg, Flashes will stop you DEAD in your tracks and you have to "fix" your body.
(yes you can still slip) And emagging will make you as klutzy as a clown and like you have brain damage.

The upsides are: "No organ damage, no need to eat, no need to worry about heat/cold, you won't bleed out"

But yes.... you do need to breath still!