Nerf the Sponge (it's evil)

[Lhairn]

Have you tried cleaning the kitchen floor with a sponge? It's both back-breaking and takes a lot of time/effort.

Real life complaints asides, this is a suggestion focused on the Janitorial experience: Sponges are currently able to clean any surface or directly the source of dirtiness (gibs, ants, dirt, blood prints, etc) instantly rather than having an action bar like the mop does. This presents a situation in which unless you are dealing with a flooding that needs mopping up, there is absolutely no reason to ever use the mop (the mop being able to soak up infinite amounts of liquid is also another personal gripe of mine).

This creates a situation which results in:

1- As previously stated, other cleaning tools get overshadowed by the sponge. I have never seen a janitor use a mop to clean the floor unless they were a new player, and most of the time spray cleaners or cleaning grenades are saved for places that are too hard to clean manually, such as a bible fart or a synthflesh bombing.

2- As sponges don't generate a pool of water like the mop does when cleaning a mess (unless you clean the tile on which the mess is rather than the mess itself), the reality is that janitors in general almost never create a slipping hazard that they need to be mindful about. Even if you were to clean and immediately soak up the pool of water with a mop, it's still a few seconds in which you have to take care so that a crew-mate doesn't slip and hurt themselves (or to place down the slip hazard sign so that you cannot be blamed). Only times I ever see someone slipping due to the actions of a non-antag janitor is because of the cleaner grenades, and even then they don't carry around a slip sign, because 90% of the time they will be using a sponge.

A few suggestions on how to improve things:

1- About the mop, how about if blocking or using them (with C) places the Janitor in a "automop" stance, in which they move slowly as walking but will water the tiles they step over cleaning them, until the mop is either dry or the Janitor stops. They would still have to dry them out with the mop later, but it would allow for cleaning large mess more comfortably. (perhaps you can only do this with Janitorial training? dunno)

2- About the sponge, how about if cleaning floor surfaces was nerfed with an action bar slightly longer than just mopping, but it kept the instant clean on wiping things out of people, objects or walls that are covered with dirty things like blood. As the mop cannot do this (to my knowledge), it would help to distinguish them apart mechanically.

How would this change reflect in-game:

Solve world hunger, bring happiness to everyone, make science not nuke 1/3 of the station with artlabs and uh, give people a reason to actually use their complete janitorial tools, especially the slippery sign and mop.

[Kotlol]

Sadly enough... a lot of janitorial tasks in general just require the sponge as other tools CANNOT fix them or need CONSTANT refilling.

The sponge... only needs a spot to empty once in a while.

[Dhaidburt]

I've played more than my fair share of janitor, and can confirm that nobody used the mop for a W H I L E other than for soaking up liquids. The mop was buffed recently, but you wouldn't know that since everyone just uses the sponge anyways. It's quick and easy, and lets you clean up walls too. I can't argue with you there.

On the other hand, if the sponge was made worse there's a chance that people would toss it like the rag and just use cleaner bottles. A one click cleaning option that just requires you to run over to science or medbay after a while, vs a one click cleaning option that requires you to run over to a sink after a while.

[babayetu83]

i can't say that i miss the days of having to haul a mop and bucket around in lieu of just carrying a sponge and a trashcart to clean up garbage

[Lhairn]

Well, maybe complicating the already complex game is a bad idea, especially a role meant for relaxed or newer players.

[Kotlol]

Okay seeing Lhairn's post made me think...
Janitors are a boring, thankless and hard job (since you don't have access)

Also keeping the station clean in Classic has NO REAL BENEFIT.
It's not like clean rooms avoid bad things or give buffs. It's only a visual indicator that it's clean wich could mean something or nothing...

And most of the time the janitor might stumble upon a body and drag it with them but... overall.. janitors have the least effect on the station.

What Janitors need in my opinion is more "reason" to exist. Cause right now.. they just replace lightbulbs as their most "effective" gameplay and some thinks engineers need to do it, wich makes sense since engineers and engineer borgs have tools to add more lamps too.
But most of the cleaning is "kinda" pointless.

Most antags are above pay grade for Janitors to deal with. What do janitors do to make the job of antags harder or adds to the station? To my opinion not much. infact Chaplains are almost on the same level as worthless if they weren't so super effective against Vampires.

So yea.. nerfing the sponge and making them harder to play, might REMOVE reason to play.
Janitors need more "REASON" to do janitorial stuff.

[Cal]

i can't say that i miss the days of having to haul a mop and bucket around in lieu of just carrying a sponge and a trashcart to clean up garbage

I would really love it if the mop cart was capable of carrying all of the janitor's tools (mops, signs, spray bottles and refills)

[Dhaidburt]

i can't say that i miss the days of having to haul a mop and bucket around in lieu of just carrying a sponge and a trashcart to clean up garbage

I would really love it if the mop cart was capable of carrying all of the janitor's tools (mops, signs, spray bottles and refills)

Love the idea, but there'd be fistfights over the one watercart until the weaker janitors slink off to order more from cargo, leaving a pile of mops and leftover cleaner grenades in cargo. Unless you were able to craft/fab a cart of course..

[Glamurio]

As some people have mentioned, there's an issue with taking a system that works and doesn't cause any problems, and then making it more complicated or difficult for the sake of it. What happens is that you create an environment where people just don't want to play that job anymore.

Janitors are a fairly easy role to play, they are meant to be a relaxed introduction to the game with no "real" responsibilities and no "real" rewards. As such, janitors have a variety of tools that they can use, and all of which do the same thing, clean. It's up to the janitor to pick the tool they like to use, either because they prefer that playstyle, the aesthetic, or because it's just more fun that way.

Mops currently have a very important gameplay role, and that is the quick cleaning of fluids. Rather than viewing the mop as an alternative to the sponge, you should view it as its own separate tool for a different kind of job. One thing we could take from this thread is that further diversifying the usage of the tools could make the job itself more engaging to play.

For instance, when an explosion goes off, it often leaves "destroyed" tiles behind. The sprite actually suggests that they are simply dirty, and I even remember as a beginning player my attempt in cleaning them resulting in failure, but what if spray bottles and cleaning agents could be used to scrub them clean again, as an alternative to having to replace them? It would expand the scope of Janitorial duties, while also providing more uses to the other tools they have.

[JanusRose]

Give the sponge life instead, then give it a Starfish buddy.

[Meggal Bozale]

As some people have mentioned, there's an issue with taking a system that works and doesn't cause any problems, and then making it more complicated or difficult for the sake of it. What happens is that you create an environment where people just don't want to play that job anymore.

Janitors are a fairly easy role to play, they are meant to be a relaxed introduction to the game with no "real" responsibilities and no "real" rewards. As such, janitors have a variety of tools that they can use, and all of which do the same thing, clean. It's up to the janitor to pick the tool they like to use, either because they prefer that playstyle, the aesthetic, or because it's just more fun that way.

Mops currently have a very important gameplay role, and that is the quick cleaning of fluids. Rather than viewing the mop as an alternative to the sponge, you should view it as its own separate tool for a different kind of job. One thing we could take from this thread is that further diversifying the usage of the tools could make the job itself more engaging to play.

For instance, when an explosion goes off, it often leaves "destroyed" tiles behind. The sprite actually suggests that they are simply dirty, and I even remember as a beginning player my attempt in cleaning them resulting in failure, but what if spray bottles and cleaning agents could be used to scrub them clean again, as an alternative to having to replace them? It would expand the scope of Janitorial duties, while also providing more uses to the other tools they have.

I did this too when starting out, but I'm 99% they're "destroyed" because the tiles are, indeed destroyed. Like, broken, smashed to bits, porcelain everywhere oh my god i just slashed my ankle on a lopsided floortile. It could probably use a resprite and/or more variations to look more obvious/better IMO.