Why Classic Antags should have a chance to appear on RP

[Smil]

While I doubt my idea will go anywhere for a number of reasons, I wanted to at least get my thoughts out on this matter. Basically; I believe that on the RP servers there should be a rare but not impossible chance for the classic antagonists to appear on station. This would be a very low chance as to not interrupt normal RP gameplay, but it could happen--similar to wraiths. Why should this be added? Simply because I feel like they could add a large amount of flavor to standard RP rounds.
   As is my antagonist philosophy, a story is more than its climax. So much roleplay can be fostered by simply adding a major threat to the game. Take for instance a nuke ops round. While sure, the actual battle for the nuke would simply be a bloodbath, there's a number of potential RP interactions that a community used to the idea could do. An infiltrator trying to smooth talk the captain into a bad spot, a board meeting by the nuke ops to try and determine their strategy, an emergency task force being ordered by the Captain or HoS to try and counter the invaders. While sure, there's always the likelihood that the nukies will just rush in blind and make a break for it and the crew will go full bloodlust--I feel as if the RP community would more often than not make it work if they were aware of the possibility and the round type was slightly more often with random rolls.
   Another reason as to why this could be added is simply to give RP players more opportunities to interact with and see all that SS13 has to offer. I know many of us don't really play on classic more than once in a blue moon, so we don't often get to see some of the other game modes. While this is a weak reason, I still feel as if it is valid nonetheless. Many of us simply don't like the community that has been fostered in classic--not because it's inherently bad but because thats not what we want out of our silly space game. So, by adding this feature RP players would have more of an ability to experience everything.
   To put it simply, I know this idea will likely go nowhere. I have no interest in coding and I doubt even if it were coded it wouldn't be merged. But I simply want people to consider the idea that classic antags on the round roll in RP could be a potential benefit. Thank you for your time.

[Kotlol]

Classic antagonists have been filtered into RP slowly but surely.

We gotten Salvagers and gangs recently.
And flock and nukies are CONSIDERED.
I also saw some werewolves but I cannot confirm it is ADMEME or Other shennigans.

While what you are asking isn't unreasonable. The fact of the matter is... RP is dipping it's toes into more extreme antags and see how it measures up.

Nukies and Wizards can bring amazing RP to a station.
But... at the same time.. Wizards and Nukies can also end RPs very easily.

[Meowgical]

Speaking on just nukies here, I kinda hope they one day do make it in to RP as a (albeit rare) antagonist. We had a round a bit ago where they just, pretended to be food critics or something of the like before they brought The Nuke which was immensely funny. I know there's likely a risk of the round being short and disappointing or bloodlust kicking in gear immediately, but I think there's a good chance that with time and a slow slow introduction we could have some really good interesting stories that still utilize them.

But also I love nukies, 10/10 get nuking.

[Silent Majority]

nukies are best kept under admin curration, because escalation still exists. The same goes or werewolf and hunter.

wizards are so destructive that they can cause rp rounds to decay rapidly.

Flock and blob can't really RP much.

[Glamurio]

Technically all these do pop up on RP, just via admemes. You could argue that "a low chance for them to spawn" is about as often as an admin feels like enabling them for a round or two, so you wouldn't get much of a different experience than you do right now.

On the subject of Flock and Blob not being able to RP, imo what matters more is whether or not they enable cool, unique RP moments, they don't need to be necessarily the engaging party to allow others to RP around them.

Also, language isn't strictly necessary to RP, it can totally come into play by actions, and that's something that both of them are able to capitalize on.

[Kotlol]

Technically all these do pop up on RP, just via admemes. You could argue that "a low chance for them to spawn" is about as often as an admin feels like enabling them for a round or two, so you wouldn't get much of a different experience than you do right now.

On the subject of Flock and Blob not being able to RP, imo what matters more is whether or not they enable cool, unique RP moments, they don't need to be necessarily the engaging party to allow others to RP around them.

Also, language isn't strictly necessary to RP, it can totally come into play by actions, and that's something that both of them are able to capitalize on.

Ironically on the blob thing. We had admeme blob round with 3 blobs.
One blob surrounded my charater and "wanted" to keep me there as a pet. Too bad I choked out... D:

[Lord_earthfire]

On blob and flock, i don't think RP needs to haplen woth these antags. They are a force of nature-type enemy. The crew-crew-interation in the response to them is where the RP happens, nit the antag-crew interaction.

[Dhaidburt]

Eh, I'm more happy with how things are now. Nuke-ops being admin controlled means that people are more serious about making the most out of it, rather than it just being 'destroy the station GO' which is what alot of classic-only antags are about. It being in rotation could result in back-to-back rounds too (shiny pokemon are .02%, it can happen.)

I do kinda like the idea of flock being added in though. You have far more time to be rescued or potentially rp while inside their prison, and having somoene come in for the save last-minute to pull you out would be hella fun.

Maybe with the added ability to talk to more than their bretherin. Convince others to bring you things to feast upon, giving them weird flock things in return, or just betray them once they've outlived their usefulness. Could result in a friendly flock too which could be annoying..

[Silent Majority]

Flock can't be friendly. Their goal completion nukes the station

[Glamurio]

Flock can't be friendly.  Their goal completion nukes the station

That implies that people on RP play for goal completion. Wrong mindset. Most (good) RP antags do RP first, goals last. Flocks can absolutely be friendly.

Nukies also need to nuke the station, yet they often roleplay it out. Just because their suggested goal doesn't directly align with the RP rules, doesn't mean it can't happen. Same would honestly apply to Wizards, I'd presume RP wizards would just polymorph or be magical pranksters most of the time.

[Silent Majority]

Flocks passively existing cause the station to be nuked. As in if they have any flockbits eventually they will atomatically build the nuke. the only way they could be passive is if tey and their trace(s) existed as intangible ghosts that could not interact with anyone, in which case they'd be observers with a funny skin.

[Emimiyu]

This is more about spacemass antag, but imo I think grinch should be able to spawn in RP. Yes, they have some not RP friendly abilities, but they have some good RP potential.

[TDHooligan]

This has been discussed ad infinitum on the discord. it has been shot down ad infinitum + 1 times.

Admins need to keep the servers controlled, and spend their time *volunteering* to do so

Now, with classic antags:
- They are not built around proper RP escalation. They have loadouts with murder buttons, so will break these rules often in a single click (this undeniably happens a lot)
- They lack stealth, so they're immediately obviously 'valid'. yes experienced roleplayers can and will ignore them but it's incredibly meta and frustrating for some RPers, waiting for the wizard to find a single reason to 'escalate' to instant-murder mode. "oh your floors are dirty... this is an outrage!!! ARSE NATH"
- Some literally just end the round, why bother engaging in long-term RP when you know there's nukies about and the shift is a 50/50 to end in 10 minutes

EVERYONE who pushes these antags are like "oh I wont do that!!!!" but you know who will? people that aren't super familiar with the roleplay environment and roll antag. New players will get ahlelped all because they were given 180 rounds of 5.56 and decided they'd shoot 3 of them at the clown. Or perhaps they turned into a werewolf in a bad spot and needed the witnesses gone.

Getting told off by admins for using any of the toys given to you sucks. We don't want new players finally rolling antag and then getting told off for using the antag's abilities.

Then people think admins are an infallible wall that will fix and enforce all of this. They are not. They are volunteers, they are human, and they definitely have better things to do than glue themselves to the IRC/discord watching for the 20 daily cases of 'poor escalation' as Pubbie McRoleplay clicked their instant-death button they were given.

[Glamurio]

This has been discussed ad infinitum on the discord. it has been shot down ad infinitum + 1 times.

Admins need to keep the servers controlled, and spend their time *volunteering* to do so

Now, with classic antags:
- They are not built around proper RP escalation. They have loadouts with murder buttons, so will break these rules often in a single click (this undeniably happens a lot)
- They lack stealth, so they're immediately obviously 'valid'. yes experienced roleplayers can and will ignore them but it's incredibly meta and frustrating for some RPers, waiting for the wizard to find a single reason to 'escalate' to instant-murder mode. "oh your floors are dirty... this is an outrage!!! ARSE NATH"
- Some literally just end the round, why bother engaging in long-term RP when you know there's nukies about and the shift is a 50/50 to end in 10 minutes

EVERYONE who pushes these antags are like "oh I wont do that!!!!" but you know who will? people that aren't super familiar with the roleplay environment and roll antag. New players will get ahlelped all because they were given 180 rounds of 5.56 and decided they'd shoot 3 of them at the clown. Or perhaps they turned into a werewolf in a bad spot and needed the witnesses gone.

Getting told off by admins for using any of the toys given to you sucks. We don't want new players finally rolling antag and then getting told off for using the antag's abilities.

Then people think admins are an infallible wall that will fix and enforce all of this. They are not. They are volunteers, they are human, and they definitely have better things to do than glue themselves to the IRC/discord watching for the 20 daily cases of 'poor escalation' as Pubbie McRoleplay clicked their instant-death button they were given.

In a sense, it really boils down to an issue that's been discussed many times before. If so many roles are RP unfriendly, but RP continues to be a separate environment, then to me it seems sensible to consider making RP-friendly versions of these antagonists. It's been done before on the Changeling, and would work wonders on things like Wizards that simply get their kill spells removed or nerfed.

I don't disagree with the overall assessment, some simply do not fit RP, but it's likewise not like we're unable to make them fit. I've addressed it before, and I believe the actual issue is the dev team's stance of code segregation and unwillingness to have too many RP-only variants.

[StaringGasMask]

Flock can't be friendly.  Their goal completion nukes the station

That implies that people on RP play for goal completion. Wrong mindset. Most (good) RP antags do RP first, goals last. Flocks can absolutely be friendly.

Nukies also need to nuke the station, yet they often roleplay it out. Just because their suggested goal doesn't directly align with the RP rules, doesn't mean it can't happen. Same would honestly apply to Wizards, I'd presume RP wizards would just polymorph or be magical pranksters most of the time.

Honestly, having a hostage situation sounds pretty fun, there are some lore mails that describe the nuking of SS12 and it was a development over a considerable time, with the Synds taking crewmembers hostage and trying to get the captain to negotiate the disk.
Something like that would be cool to see