Recent Cape changes discussion thread

[Ikea]

Recently, the HoS cape was made to take up a backpack slot, to be blunt I think this change is bad. The reason to my understanding for this change is as follows, fashion vs function has always been a part of this game. Caps sword was a listed example, you sacrifice the utility of a sword, but in return you gain the coolness of one. I think this can be a very fun gameplay element, it leads to a certain "honor" among certain items. Yeah sure clown shoes may put you at a disadvantage, but it shows you're doing what it takes to be a clown. So why do I dislike this change?

I think that in the process of adding the "honor" to the hos cape, it takes away a lot more from the hos job. Inventory space matters loads when it comes to playing as security, and the vast majority of players will not bother with the cape. This means that this takes away a lot from previous hos dynamics, for starters, for fashion you had the coat and the cape competing, with the armor vest being reserved for nerds who cared about stats. This coat hos vs cape hos was always a playful and fun part of the job, and its now gone. More importantly though, the cape just fits hos really well. The cape was always the right blend of dorky and cool, it fit the energy of hos really well. To see it relegated to being forgotten in the closet just seems bad.

[Jakson]

Agree with everything Ikea mentioned above. Initial reactions on the discord were universal disagreement on the change from community members. My favorite memory of meeting every fresh HoS player is asking them, "Jacket or cape?" and then making fun of their choice regardless of which one they picked (war medal is the best option)

[RGBDeadSilent]

Question. Armored Paramedic, biosuit and firesuits already exist. Doing each of these with an Armored Vest always came with either a flat minor benefit or a benefit with a slight downgrade. Firesuit being the best example, since you get your armor and you fire resist, but you have a huge movement speed hit.

Was this a though perhaps for the HoS Cape? Cape + Armored Vest = Armored Cape. Would share the same sprite for Cape + Body armor that you can get with the backpack slot cape. Could have just also made it so combining them dragged down the Armored Vests body protection, for the benefit of FASHION.

Instead you give up something that Security strictly has something in excess because the Role literally already has TOO MUCH SHIT TO CARRY. We're the only role with a Pouch Slot because of all the goofy items that security needs to lug around. Why in the sake of fashion, are the devs walking back on inventory space for security for... HoS Cape?

[Retrino]

its kind of hard to formulate more criticism other than i simply dont understand the point of the change. the sacrifice for fashion standpoint doesnt hold much weight considering the existence of the other capes that dont fit on the back slot, and the hos jacket still remaining as outer suit. it would be good to hear what the discussions were by admins that made this change go through, so that it doesnt seem like just a random anti qol push from the community perspective

[stuck_in_void_HELP]

i don't like this. i am a cape HoS so my opinion is biased, but i'd like to keep wearing my cape.

i don't understand what the purpose of it is. now no one has any practical reason to choose the cape, it'll just be there in the locker because the jacket is now the objectively superior option.

i really, really don't like it.

[unfunnyperson]

I am heavily opposed to this change

I dont see what changes this does apart from ruining the cape, A losing a bit of armor for a sylish item is fine but not 7 large items slots

[FishyCrea]

Making players choose between style and function is exactly why so many players run around wearing gas masks. Style should be something separate to function because otherwise the game in punishing players for cosmetic options. The fact that the stats were lowered on top of all this is even more confusing. I can't see any HoS player running with the cape now, especially since their job on both RP and classic is one of the more function-heavy ones.

[Judobum]

The cape could have the option to be worn on either slot. Would allow a hos to still choose to dedicate the outer slot to cape or jacket or if a hos wants to go for cape on backpack and jacket on outer for style. Justification for lowered stats on a backpack slot could be it fitting less closely and therefore giving less warmth. Alternatively a backpack slot cape could be added to the locker on top of the normal cape. Could be named parade cape to indicate its use as more of a flashy and a desc showing it doesn’t fit as closely and is meant more as a vanity item over practical

[Wander]

Due to the date on the changelog being some sort of joke I'm not even sure if this is supposed to be taken seriously though I thought I'd share my thoughts anyhow. I agree with the previous statements; I also wanted to add that using the cape now forces players into a far worse storage issue than has been fully covered by previous statements. Inventory management is already hellish for HoSii due to all the random stuff you find yourself having or wanting to carry like your silly mug or lunchbox(normal sized item incompatible with new cape storage). 

One large issue is that most armory equipment has now become near incompatible with the cape. If you want to use or carry to hand out a riot shotgun then I hope you enjoy carrying it around in your hands because you can neither store it in a backpack nor your back(cape is now there), If it's a hammer it's the same case, if it's a pulse rifle it's the same case, if it's the tranquilizer darts it's the same case, and if it's a riot launcher or it's rounds- I think adding anymore isn't needed since most people know vaguely all the normal sized and larger items in the armory. There's also the situation where your other department members want to use anything from the grenades crate which half of as well compounds the issue.

There is also that unless you're just constantly wearing a gas mask you as well will not be able to have one on hand for any capsaicin grenades your own employees can get 4 of as a utility purchase, the riot launcher smoke your department has laying out in the open, or even your own gun on one of its modes (fogshot). This is due to only backpacks being able to store gas masks as they're a normal item. This lack of normal item storage also creates issues in storing any utility items you get as you cannot store boxes on you while wearing the cape. On top of this it creates a situation where if another notices you wearing the cape especially without a gas mask it's a sort of broadcast that a single capsaicin grenade or any equivalent will immediately incapacitate you. I imagine will make people that want to wear the cape begin practically stapling their masks to their face to avoid friendly fire or being immediately taken down by someone that ran into security and grabbed one of those grenades off a table. It makes the cape seem more like a massive "Kill me" sign which for equipment given at roundstart to HoSii seems counter to the guidelines where it asks you to not get yourself killed more easily than needed.

While most of the previous issues revolve around classic or gameplay it also has some effects on rp. One is that if someone is wearing the cape it sort of forces them to minmax the rest of their space leaving no room for gimmicky items like prior mentioned silly mug or anything of the sort because not having a bag hampers your inventory to that degree. Any item that is normal sized or larger as well immediately becomes something you cannot carry for gimmicks leading to a massive reduction in the quality of life for any HoS trying to wear their cape while also not having what small amount of inventory left be strictly job-related gear. Of course, there is the alternative where a HoS wears the cape and makes their inventory entirely trinkets or mostly trinkets, which once again sort of makes their job and self-defense hard enough that they may unintentionally be broadcasting that they are not taking it as seriously as their officers. This could lead to the impression overtime that anyone wearing the cape is in a way unreliable and not taking their role in the round into consideration which isn't really the message that's ideal to give to your department when they are struggling with something. 

Overall it makes the cape such a massive loss in QoL and show of blatant disregard for the wearer's safety that I don't imagine most will wear it for any reason other than bragging about how someone is using less equipment than others, which is already a small issue due to there being some elitism around wearing only your lawbringer on your belt or using just a baton, or the occasional person that enjoys making themselves easier to kill than a maintenance rat for fashion's sake. Normally I do not even mind having some fashion over utility though generally the ones doing it have some sort of backup armor or something to compensate for the lack of immediate safety so they don't become essentially a walking lootbox though in this instance even that is not an option. It'd serve as an item that sits there and temps you to wear it so that it can quickly get you murdered or cause you to spend your round dealing with constant inventory management issues unless you just begin avoiding it altogether. This in essence makes it an item that may as well not exist since its only purpose is as a trap or bragging tool. I'd personally rather see it removed than it become like this. If it used any other slot other than the backpack one, it would alleviate all of these concerns immediately. I do hope this is the direction things take otherwise I cannot see myself ever using the cape due to how irresponsible it'd feel to wear. Of course, this is not to say that HoSii cannot make themselves more vulnerable, there's degrees of it. I feel this particular case crosses that line though for myself and I'd hate to see officers becoming jaded because the person supposed to be the one to look after them is constantly preventing themselves from being able to effectively help in a large portion of the situations that arise on the job just to wear a cape.

This is as comprehensive as I could make a post on the topic. I hope this is useful somehow in sort of bringing to light the various results of the change using what experience I've managed to scrounge up.

[Santa Shy]

Jesus christ I have so many opinions on this change god where do I even start and non of it is positive. This change is overwhelmingly negative and im almost 100% sure no one asked for this. Head of security already has a massive target on their back at all times for just existing and especially between the classic vs rp game play you need every advantage you get depending on the antags. So massively crippling your self for the sake of lookin nice was already something we had to compromise with since armor is out of the picture when deciding either cape or jacket.

You already are at a disadvantage because of the armor loss if you just want to look nice which I am all for fashion over function but there has to be a point where its too much. This is too much, Loosing a little bit of armor makes hos or anyone who wears it squishier to the average sec off and if you don't wear the hat which has armor on it to make up for the fact that the cape has less armor which is fine, Its even worse. NOW for some magical reason of CAPE + Jacket?!?!? the capes universally gets owned? What happens to those who just want to wear a cape why then do we ALL have to just get owned? Loosing very precious and coveted inventory space on a job that already carries a SHIT TON OF STUFF. Even gamming the trophy belt wont remedy this because your entire sec loadout already costs around 5-7 or even 8 slots depending on what you get you NEED the back pack or your just loosing out on some very key items you need to handle certain antags looking at Lings and vamps specifcally or a nasty penner.

So why is this change even here? Why harm what was already perfectly fine fashion? if you tell me its SOELY for the purpose of using the JACKET + CAPE COMBO it should be WAY BETTER than ANY ARMOR we can use even going so far as to say it should be comparable to NUKIE COMMANDER JACKET LEVELS OF PROTECTION to make up for the fact that ON SECURITY SPECICALLY WHICH THIS CHANGE SEEMS TO BE POINTED TOWARDS WE HAVE TO LOOSE OUT VERY V E R Y important inventory space on the most cluttered inventory management job in the game.

If this change was added PURELY as a fashion change to allow jacket + cape or even armor + cape there needs to be a MUCH BIGGER INCENTIVE to use a cape now ESPECIALLY FOR ME since a MAJORITY OF HOS PLAYERS SOMETHING THAT IS ALREADY PRETTY SMALL use JACKETS. This is just punishing THE ALREADY SMALL HOS PLAYERS that want to use CAPES FOR JUST SIMPLY EXISTING.

So WHY IS THIS HERE?

[Silent Majority]

I feel that to compensate, the cape should be a job reward that changee their security belt into a tacticool belt that can hold large items.

That said i am otherwise for the change. It does actually give them extra stats now. Just at a cost that isn't balanced i feel.

[DummySian]

what was the issue with just making capes go on both slots if it was for sake of 'funny' cape and jacket stack
Or like RGB said making them work like armored paramedic suits and ect.
seems like a horrible change without anything justifying it.
god you can't even ask people if they would prefer the cape or jacket, there is nothing funny in this change like it intended, it just killed all of it.
Because of how much inventory matters when you are playing security im NOT going to sacrifice back slot to wear a cape to look cool (and it honestly doesn't even look cool), and in the end the reason aloe told us (stacking hos cape and jacket) is barely even visible on sprite...

[aloe]

Very unlikely that the change stays in its current form. Will likely either revert it entirely or replace with an alternative that will hopefully be more fun (still need to discuss w/ more devs)

[Clean Your Teeth]

Any purely cosmetic change that gets the HOS-main gang riled up enough to write 2500 words against it sounds good to me.
Keep it in, and hopefully it'll get them to take the coat/cape "decision", the role, the game, and themselves a bit less seriously.
Next take away their fancy gun and make then use the normal tasers.

[Lord_earthfire]

Very unlikely that the change stays in its current form. Will likely either revert it entirely or replace with an alternative that will hopefully be more fun (still need to discuss w/ more devs)

The accessory slot that us PR'ed could be a good home for the cape. I think that would be a perfect fit for the HOS cape.