Regarding Nadir

[RelentlessGarbage]

A lot of people vocally do not like Nadir. On Classic, if and when Nadir shows up, people will complain about it.

I am not one of those people, and I think it's a perfectly fine map. Kubius has clearly put in a lot of work into it, and while I used to dislike it as someone who plays only botany because the department was very cramped, it has since been changed and is quite spacious and well-stocked.

However, I wanted to gauge the opinion of members of this forum regarding Nadir. Furthermore, I'd like to ask how you tend to play on Nadir compared to other maps, and what the map's features and design lead you to do during the average shift.

I find myself generally staying inside or directly proximal to my department most of the shift on Nadir, perhaps more than usual. It feels like there's not much reason to go out and around, and it can be more trouble than it's worth compared to simply interacting with other departments via the mail. (As a botanist, this is generally true in all maps, but I feel it's especially true for Nadir, since your department is centrally located and anyone that wants something can easily come to you in person to request it.) Acid floods can be a problem, especially if a critical area like medbay is flooded, but unlike in Oshan they rarely flood the entire station given the liberal use of door shields. However, the acid degradation system for pieces of equipment isn't really explained, and the fact that you can actually repair damage to your equipment by using a nanoloom was something I only just learned about by accident. Not sure how I'd introduce the nanoloom to the players on Nadir gracefully, but I think it'd be a good idea, as it might make people less afraid to venture into an acid-filled hallway with their guaranteed emergency suits (knowing that they can be repaired). Maybe adding a poster - like the posters about the emergency suits - would cause more people to realize they exist.

I also find that the area around escape can sometimes become quite irradiated now that there's a nuclear reactor, although I'd chock that up more to the nuclear reactor still being kind of new and people figuring it out rather than a fault of Nadir itself. I have no idea how much use the catalytic generators or the harmonic siphon see, although the tranception array seems like a perfectly fine solution for the QM and they use it regularly.

[Kotlol]

I'll help voice the opinion as a RP player... so let me add the plus's and negatives of Nadir in my opinion.

+ It's a big map with a lot of side corridors and rooms
- Some maintance shafts are only 1 space big
+ It doesn't take long to get used to where everything is.
- The east and West side hardly get used / visited unless for RP gimmicks. As it's just crew quarters and the engine but you won't see any of it.
+ The acid mechanic makes breaches one of the most dangerous in the game.
- The shields prevent acid spread abit too easily sometimes.
- The acid is too aggresive, making me rather walk into space.
- Wormholes are now instadeaths if you are unlucky unless you are a changeling
+ Most actions remains on the station
- No subs or incentive to explore unless you got the right suit, wich is limited. Thus restricting outside movement A LOT!
- The "Diner" is hidden under the station. If you know, you know but normally you would go there by pod/sub. Making it annoying for newbies and it just feels off.
+ Engine systems are one of the most complex and engaging thing for engineers to work on.
+ The science thingy is unique for Nadir and is cool since it can effect the whole station in creative ways.
- It can also be used to mess up the round completely.... And we thought ART BOMBS WERE BAD!
+ Engineering and Science are working together a lot in this station due to having eachothers access too.
+ Miners have reasons to be bring in a lot of radioactive materials then just "Lol why not?"
- Miners have to keep going in and out of the acid sea due to degradation.
- Miners don't have subs (atleast last time i checked). Thus forcing them to always walk in the acid and using oxygen.
- Miners don't have an oxygen gauge, thus if they run out and are far away or lost.. without a sub to safely return.. making this the most dangerous mining operation.
+ Most departments and rooms feel the perfect amount of size and shape. Nothings too big or too small.
- Access shafts are all over the place... if you are a civilian you can technically get anywhere but it's figuring out wich doors and shafts open for you and wich DONT.
Making it a maze if you don't have maintance access but you can access maintance via access of your doors and using the right shafts.. but also you can get eaisly trapped and no AI can see you in some cases.
+ QM has teleport pads to do their import and export.
- It's very likely you can accidentally export an item you imported.

And I think that's that... but I do think Nadir is a good map.. it just has a lot of minus gimmicks that can be "ironed out" or be learned as you say.

Otherwise yes the "Science doohickey" aka Harmonic Sihpon and such is weird and complex but it's good that it's there.
I got nothing else to add... some things need to be explained better and some things might need to change abit.

[Lord_earthfire]

I really like nadir. It makes much of the stuff right that other maps are lacking. The warrens as crime spaces are perfect, the harmonic syphon really adds a connection between science and engineering. Especially science being placed central of the station is just awesome. Scientists aren't ignired, and you cannot make TTV's or powergame artsci/chemistry in a secluded area where noone comes checking in.

My only gripe woth it was the cramped botany department but that's in now and awesome. Pland i think mining is out if place considering the syphon exist.

Being very restricted and not allowing people for prolonged time outside is promoting people interacting with each other and actually do their job. No rushing the debris field for loot.

The nuclear engine also makes it a risky place and makes engineers mindfull to overdo it an irradiate everyone.

For RP, most things on Nadir play very well. But i can see how these exact things could be unlijed in classic.

[stuck_in_void_HELP]

I like how navigable it is. It's not hard to find out where you need to go. The acid aspect is a bit of a bother to me, as I feel that those are easy to cause and can render entire corridors and departments unusable in a short time.

[Silent Majority]

Biggest flaw for me is how i have not had a salv round that wasn't punch holes in windows to cause flooding simulator 2053

[TDHooligan]

it can feel simultaneously a bit cramped and a bit empty. almost like the core departments were placed first, and the auxiliary areas were quite literally put aside til the end. like there's a lot of the main setpiece areas (barbers, pool etc) sitting well outside the 'hot paths' (space between departments where people walk) so nobody visits these places. even the bar on Nadir seems particularly low footfall.

Overall I don't hate it. but it's not a favorite.

I'd be interested to see the results if goon heat-mapped footfall on a few of the key maps.

[babayetu83]

i'm starting to feel like nadir's design leads to more rounds that have a glacial pace, especially on rp. so very little action aside from idiots getting into slapfights over somebody taking somebody's screwdriver or something. the ratway or whatever is the only part of the station that's really open and allows for maneuvering

[NanoDano]

luv me some acid mouthwash, simple as

[Mouse]

The general absence of metal sheets and/or floor tiles in public areas feels like a poor design decision.

I'd willingly put on the suit and fix shit but I can't actually do that so.

[Dhaidburt]

The general absence of metal sheets and/or floor tiles in public areas feels like a poor design decision.

I'd willingly put on the suit and fix shit but I can't actually do that so.

You know, I think that's a really good point that I hadn't considered before. After looking over the placement of metal sheets and glass on nadir vs oshan, it's miles apart. Oshan has 2 publicly available placements for glass and plates, while nadir only has one and that's next to cargo anyways. 

If there were some plates next to the nanolooms on each end of the map I'd think we'd have less flooding.

[According_tome]

Nadir feels fresh to me apart from rest of the stations it follows entirely different mechanics regarding engineering. But I feel confined at times.

[Meowgical]

Personally, I still really love Nadir. It's not flawless, none of the maps are of course, but it's unique and engaging. The environment outside is dangerous and fun, and when it (though i mostly play RP) does eventually flood, it has its own hardships that feel kinda fun and rewarding to overcome and fix. I can easily find where I need to go, the walkpaths are unique as are the ships layout itself, the sites in the sea are intriguing and fun to explore. idk it's just an all around fun map personnally!

[ZodiaDecius]

My only complaint with Nadir is its lack of a PTL laser that really takes away from doing anything but the minimum on the nuclear reactor. But that's just my 0.02c as a CE main

[Lord_earthfire]

My only complaint with Nadir is its lack of a PTL laser that really takes away from doing anything but the minimum on the nuclear reactor. But that's just my 0.02c as a CE main

Nadir could really need something to incentive getting the power up. Oshan got the belt speed upgrade.

How about giving the possibility to boost the syphon? Make science pump out starstone in record pace!

[JanusRose]

I very much like Nadir as a map; the acid especially makes it fun for me since it's somewhat of a death trap and offers structural challenge other maps don't.

It could use some work though to balance out that struggle like a special mats some sort of backup situation for the destruction