Something about halloween critters

[CalliopeSoups]

I'm assuming there's talk about this already on the admin side, but I felt a forum post would be a good call to gauge what the community wants done as well.

Halloween critters were taken off of the HoS whitelist recently. I had seen misuse of them even before that, but since the change there's been an increase of people using the critters to powergame. I feel a big issue is for the wider playerbase, it's actually very confusing on where these roles stand and what they're allowed to do.

First issue is walking under doors. I've been seeing countless halloween critters use this to info game and shutdown antags and I'm sure I'm not the only one. If it's not for validhunting, it's for doing low-blows like murdering the rancher's chickens.

Second issue, bumblespiders. They come with the spider's base kit of abilities without the evolution mechanic which is a huge issue. There's been lots of talk about bumbles shutting down antags on classic lately with their stun ability, interfering on sec v antag stuff in a way that just feels cheap and unfun. Even if you don't intend it to, an antag or valid-hunting crewmate can use a bumble's existence to kill or drag off anyone you stun. These abilities need to be removed imo, or reinstate the whitelist.

Personally I'd rather not keep the whitelist and just remove the bumble's stuns and give all of them the inability to walk under doors, then see how that is. Removal or reinstating the whitelist would be easier, though.

[aloe]

Flourish owned you by removing the door-pass like 2 minutes before this post was made

[Zafhset]

I'm against removing the crow/bumblespider's abilities purely because they are possible wizard polymorph options. It would severely impact their ability to fight back after being morphed.

Maybe make like a weaker halloween version? otherwise remove from selection or just re-whitelist

[CalliopeSoups]

The fiend.

(thank you so much)

[aloe]

Yeah, definitely possible to weaken the Halloween versions without modifying the wizard poly versions. Won’t promise anything but we’ll talk about it.

[Ikea]

I'd like it if bumblespider flail was replaced with a cuddle flail that gave the victim pure love instead of poison and it did no stun or damage, also remy should probably be given a kitchen access implant or something like that now

[Retrino]

just throwing in that the crows' peck gouges eyes out... which is pretty eughl

[Flourish]

Hi, yeah, along with the change Aloe mentioned, I also did end up reinstating the whitelist (though this time it's mentor, not HoS). If anyone has any alternative suggestions (I was also considering just removing their hands to limit what they could really do mechanically), feel free to suggest them.

[Ikea]

I feel like the main things are just the abilities for the bumblespider and crow convey hostility. Its a little thing that just says do harm, changing those abilities to be less that (maybe replace the crow peck ability with a "fly" ability thats just jumpy?) I think would help a lot

[Shiiba]

Hi, yeah, along with the change Aloe mentioned, I also did end up reinstating the whitelist (though this time it's mentor, not HoS). If anyone has any alternative suggestions (I was also considering just removing their hands to limit what they could really do mechanically), feel free to suggest them.

Is there a reason for just mentor, no HoS?

[Glamurio]

As someone who's had his game ruined by critters walking around in armory/upload and then snitching about it to security, I concur. There was some major powergaming happening, and I'm not sure if removal was the only way, but it certainly was a necessary first step.

In all honesty, these critters should not have any more rights than regular non-crew critters. The real issue is that they have the power level of a critter, but they also have diplomatic immunity from being killed and the ability to communicate. If you were to allow people to kill them (even as non-antag), or strip them of their ability to speak, maybe there's a case to be made for having them be more publicly accessible.

[Kotlol]

As someone who's had his game ruined by critters walking around in armory/upload and then snitching about it to security, I concur. There was some major powergaming happening, and I'm not sure if removal was the only way, but it certainly was a necessary first step.

In all honesty, these critters should not have any more rights than regular non-crew critters. The real issue is that they have the power level of a critter, but they also have diplomatic immunity from being killed and the ability to communicate. If you were to allow people to kill them (even as non-antag), or strip them of their ability to speak, maybe there's a case to be made for having them be more publicly accessible.

Allow them to speak but only in a "ghostly whail"
Forcing you to translate it...
Or just mute em.

Disabling is abit too far... either put a "Free to kill" option on them (and consuming them gives you buffs, good job chef)
Or disable their speech.

Or just disable their critter access and make them like the Firebot critter spawns.