Chemistry nerfs

[Kotlol]

A thought I had was give qm’s a new flipping category medical chems covering  patch, ampule,bottle, pills, and syringe of medical chems. And to really drive home a purpose for chemistry make the base prices on it really juicy.
On a related note is artifacts need to sell for way more than they currently do in cargo.

If we really wanted to nerf chemistry ( I do not like this following idea entirely because Of a litany of reasons) chem dispensers could start having a maximum supply of chemicals they can make before being reloaded.

Remember that botany has an "energy limit" on seed dispensery and a limited supply of chemicals to make their dream plants unless they work on getting their own chems and seeds in the future.

by limited chems, I can see the following happen...
Chemistry in science runs out.
TIME TO BEG MEDBAY AND THE BARTENDER.
And if not..
BEG QUARTERMASTER.

I like the idea of a recharge system though.
And also that you can "upgrade" the chemmaster to recharge faster. Giving mechanics and engineers something to do to upgrade it.

I also like how I find certain chems in minerals as well, so I would like science to do things with mining more too, especially chemistry.
Not only will this result in certain materials that are under used to get used more to get chemicals.. but also more fun in general.

Imagine that Mining has to secure Bohrum, then combine it with coal, then science has to make some acid, dip it into the metal to create clean metal and that gets used to improve the chem dispensers.

[DioChasek]

The seed fab energy limit recharges so long as it has a powered apc, and only takes like 30 seconds to do so. I would propose a much more drastic approach since oh no 30 seconds more to make my hell mix isn’t exactly a huge deterrent.

I was leaning more towards each chem station has an allotment from the research budget every say 100 units equals a certain amount of credits. You wanna blow your budget on stupid chems better be ready to find a way to make some cash for your department.


As far as upgrading it using mining to be more efficient maybe I dunno sounds like a system much like current mat science that hardly anyone uses, and has the potential to break things.

[Washbasin]

The seed fab energy limit recharges so long as it has a powered apc, and only takes like 30 seconds to do so. I would propose a much more drastic approach since oh no 30 seconds more to make my hell mix isn’t exactly a huge deterrent.

I was leaning more towards each chem station has an allotment from the research budget every say 100 units equals a certain amount of credits. You wanna blow your budget on stupid chems better be ready to find a way to make some cash for your department.


As far as upgrading it using mining to be more efficient maybe I dunno sounds like a system much like current mat science that hardly anyone uses, and has the potential to break things.

Sounds like a complete pain for the chemists though.

HOP, Captain, AI, Cyborgs, or anyone with AA can just instantly disable chem by embezzling, random staffy breaking in can just waste all the budget, traitors make their hellmixes with all the budget while everyone else is punished.

Even if you run out of money by doing normal chem stuff, what then? Do you need to spend your hard earned creds? How?

And what does this mean for the mechanics who make their own chem dispensers?

You can go playing chem completely normal, then get punished for some other scientist wasting the resources, that isn't fun.

[DioChasek]

I would like to reitierate even I hate the idea of messing with chemistry through nerfs.

[Kotlol]

I'll say this.. any nerf to chemistry is ment to nerf the ones who know every recipe and trick to it.
But it makes it harder to get into it and learn it all for new players.

That be the problem.

[Drewmajor11]

year old post gets necroed and gets like 20 replies in a day. what

[Lord_earthfire]

A thought I had was give qm’s a new flipping category medical chems covering  patch, ampule,bottle, pills, and syringe of medical chems. And to really drive home a purpose for chemistry make the base prices on it really juicy.
On a related note is artifacts need to sell for way more than they currently do in cargo.

If we really wanted to nerf chemistry ( I do not like this following idea entirely because Of a litany of reasons) chem dispensers could start having a maximum supply of chemicals they can make before being reloaded.

Remember that botany has an "energy limit" on seed dispensery and a limited supply of chemicals to make their dream plants unless they work on getting their own chems and seeds in the future.

by limited chems, I can see the following happen...
Chemistry in science runs out.
TIME TO BEG MEDBAY AND THE BARTENDER.
And if not..
BEG QUARTERMASTER.

I like the idea of a recharge system though.
And also that you can "upgrade" the chemmaster to recharge faster. Giving mechanics and engineers something to do to upgrade it.

I also like how I find certain chems in minerals as well, so I would like science to do things with mining more too, especially chemistry.
Not only will this result in certain materials that are under used to get used more to get chemicals.. but also more fun in general.

Imagine that Mining has to secure Bohrum, then combine it with coal, then science has to make some acid, dip it into the metal to create clean metal and that gets used to improve the chem dispensers.

Honestly, don't make it too complicated.

Just let ores (not processed metals) be extracted into chems. Like mauxite into iron, cerenkite into Radium, coshmarite into small quantities of radium, cobryl into silver and viscerite into meat slurry and loose screws.

And then throw out radium and silver from the chem dispenser and make them orderable from QM for restocking.

This would require chemists and botanists to work together with mining, make it feasable for mining to care for radioactive ores and if mining isn't occupied you still can get the chems as restock from the QM. On top of that it would really diminish the frequency of the radium/unstable mutagen deathmixes that are kinda common occurrence.

We got ores, we got the reagent extractor, we got mining. The parts are there.

[Kotlol]

Remember that botany has an "energy limit" on seed dispensery and a limited supply of chemicals to make their dream plants unless they work on getting their own chems and seeds in the future.

by limited chems, I can see the following happen...
Chemistry in science runs out.
TIME TO BEG MEDBAY AND THE BARTENDER.
And if not..
BEG QUARTERMASTER.

I like the idea of a recharge system though.
And also that you can "upgrade" the chemmaster to recharge faster. Giving mechanics and engineers something to do to upgrade it.

I also like how I find certain chems in minerals as well, so I would like science to do things with mining more too, especially chemistry.
Not only will this result in certain materials that are under used to get used more to get chemicals.. but also more fun in general.

Imagine that Mining has to secure Bohrum, then combine it with coal, then science has to make some acid, dip it into the metal to create clean metal and that gets used to improve the chem dispensers.

Honestly, don't make it too complicated.

Just let ores (not processed metals) be extracted into chems. Like mauxite into iron, cerenkite into Radium, coshmarite into small quantities of radium, cobryl into silver and viscerite into meat slurry and loose screws.

And then throw out radium and silver from the chem dispenser and make them orderable from QM for restocking.

This would require chemists and botanists to work together with mining, make it feasable for mining to care for radioactive ores and if mining isn't occupied you still can get the chems as restock from the QM. On top of that it would really diminish the frequency of the radium/unstable mutagen deathmixes that are kinda common occurrence.

We got ores, we got the reagent extractor, we got mining. The parts are there.

This is why I suggest the idea of more working together to get ideas but I am never saying my ideas are PERFECTO!
If anything these ideas are uber rough, but yea.. this is a good idea.

Though what about the bar? They can't make certain drinks without radium too?
Well I guess they gotta work the same magic no?

Eitherway this is a far better nerf then what I suggested.

[Lord_earthfire]

It wasn't meant to soubd harsh or anything. Sorry if it came as such. My thought was just an iteration on your idea to make ores contribute to chemistry

>Though what about the bar? They can't make certain drinks without radium too?
Well I guess they gotta work the same magic no?

I mean, let's look at non-secret recipes containing radium:

Unstable mutagen
Liquid dark matter
Pyrosium
Colourfull reagent

Recipes containing these 4:

Glitter
Sparkles
Honky tonic
Flaptonium
Sakurite

Cryoxadone
Mutadone
Strange reagent
Stable mutagen

So, besides secret chens, , a single drink is affected. But colorful reagent is such a bullshit recipe that i think it could be changed and it would drastically increase its use.

We can certainly make miracle matter extract into colorful reagent. That would open the gates for most clown chems.

For the medical chems, unstable mutagen can be get from Botany or nutrient crates from QM

And last but not least, if QM and Miners aren't there, a botanist with a hacked machine can get radweed and splice it with slurrypods (50% chance) to contribute radium to chemists and the bartender.

[Kotlol]

It wasn't meant to soubd harsh or anything. Sorry if it came as such. My thought was just an iteration on your idea to make ores contribute to chemistry

>Though what about the bar? They can't make certain drinks without radium too?
Well I guess they gotta work the same magic no?

I mean, let's look at non-secret recipes containing radium:

Unstable mutagen
Liquid dark matter
Pyrosium
Colourfull reagent

Recipes containing these 4:

Glitter
Sparkles
Honky tonic
Flaptonium
Sakurite

Cryoxadone
Mutadone
Strange reagent
Stable mutagen

So, besides secret chens, , a single drink is affected. But colorful reagent is such a bullshit recipe that i think it could be changed and it would drastically increase its use.

We can certainly make miracle matter extract into colorful reagent. That would open the gates for most clown chems.

For the medical chems, unstable mutagen can be get from Botany or nutrient crates from QM

And last but not least, if QM and Miners aren't there, a botanist with a hacked machine can get radweed and splice it with slurrypods (50% chance) to contribute radium to chemists and the bartender.

I actually love this thinking. 
So now we got a limited storage of certain chems that cause issues and if they want more they gotta order it or get miners to get it.
Giving value to miners and cargo.
Or alternatively botany.

[DioChasek]

I would say for more exotic things sure why not. But base metals and silver no. There are a bunch of recipes that require iron most importantly stabilizer, and silver for silver sulf, that are kind of essential to do your job. Not to mention that now on a low pop round it means if you don’t have a mining crew an additional department is now sol.

Then there is the whole trying to teach this to a new player is going to be even more of a nightmare than chemistry can already be.

[Kotlol]

I would say for more exotic things sure why not. But base metals and silver no. There are a bunch of recipes that require iron most importantly stabilizer, and silver for silver sulf, that are kind of essential to do your job. Not to mention that now on a low pop round it means if you don’t have a mining crew an additional department is now sol.

Then there is the whole trying to teach this to a new player is going to be even more of a nightmare than chemistry can already be.

There will be amount of iron and silv from the start in our idea. It just RUNS OUT.

The mining crew/Cargo is there to REFILL IT.

It just means certain chems are in limited supply there for, it won't be spammed.
If you as an antagonist want to make an unstable mutagen bomb.. you will have to get more radium.

That's the suggestion.
More chem extracting and mining interaction, but not "YOU DONT HAVE IT" More like: "ITS IN LIMITED SUPPLY"

[DioChasek]

Again we run into a similar problem as with my deparment budget suggestion ( which I don’t even like) what happens when some person comes in dispenses all the metal chems dumps it down the drain and repeats it on every single dispenser in the department. Sure it’s a bit slower than the budget shenanigans but don’t tell me people will not do it just to grief.

[Lord_earthfire]

I would say for more exotic things sure why not. But base metals and silver no. There are a bunch of recipes that require iron most importantly stabilizer, and silver for silver sulf, that are kind of essential to do your job. Not to mention that now on a low pop round it means if you don’t have a mining crew an additional department is now sol.

Then there is the whole trying to teach this to a new player is going to be even more of a nightmare than chemistry can already be.

Yeah, i was mostly targeting radium, because it's one of the strongest baseline chem poison with mostly destructive uses.

Normal metals i don't think need to be restricted. Maybe the more exotic ones, but iron is too essential and would hurt many things.

But honestly, i don't mind silver sufazide being restricted. Charcoal is restricted the same way by limited supply and it's not destroying the department. Like with charcoal, you still got botany and QM that can bring you the supplies. And charcoal is used in higher amounts than silver sufazide. And above all that, synthflesh is avaible in almost unlimited quantities to anyone eith access to a monkey and a chem dispenser.

But then again, silver isn't really used anywhere else so i don't think it needs a nerf. There's silver sulfazide, silver fulminate and Formaldeyde with their respective recipes (pent acid most notably). And these aren't problematic chems in comparison to radium and unstable mutagen.

Again we run into a similar problem as with my deparment budget suggestion ( which I don’t even like) what happens when some person comes in dispenses all the metal chems dumps it down the drain and repeats it on every single dispenser in the department. Sure it’s a bit slower than the budget shenanigans but don’t tell me people will not do it just to grief.

Well, if you manage to dump these chemicals in multiple departments, destroyed QM, mining, botany and starve out medbays internal supplies, you just freaking earned it. Personally i would go the easy way and bomb medbay, though.

[Kotlol]

Again we run into a similar problem as with my deparment budget suggestion ( which I don’t even like) what happens when some person comes in dispenses all the metal chems dumps it down the drain and repeats it on every single dispenser in the department. Sure it’s a bit slower than the budget shenanigans but don’t tell me people will not do it just to grief.

It's way too much effort for grieving to do this. If it ain't an antagonist doing this, security will be on them in time.
They will be fired by their department and such.

It's not easy to grief all of chemistry, cause there are many ways to refill it and if you say "BUT THEY THREW AWAY ALL LIMITED CHEMS IN CHEMISTRY"

You still got the bar. And if there is no barman. Just ask command to let you in or security.

If those aren't available... ask an engineer...
If those aren't available... I don't know how you would get a shift done if non of the essential jobs are there to run a station.