[CLOSED PR] Removes burst mode from tasers

[github_bot]

PULL REQUEST DETAILS




About the PR
Taser burst has been removed completely from the taser, alongside all the related sprites and code.


Why's this needed?
I was initially conflicted on if this should nerf it or remove it. I think removing it would be the best. The burst mode makes the taser shotgun basically completely irrelevant. The burst ability of shotgun is only useful close up, unlike burst. While the taser shotgun is more energy efficent, you can just rely on pointblanks with the taser in order to get shots in completely efficently, or if youre good count on your aim. Even from a balance perspective, I dont think itd be possible to get burst to a good state. Increasing the energy cost wouldnt change much, insta-stunning someone is a much higher reward then running out of taser energy and having to use your baton. Making the burst mode no longer one shot stun I feel would just make the mode never be used.


Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Ikea
(*)Taser burst has been removed from the taser.

PULL REQUEST DETAILS

[Waffleloffle]

as someone who is decidedly not a sec main, and also someone who plays using a trackpad, I feel like this would really inhibit my ability to be an effective secoff (and thus inhibit the fun I have) when I do play sec. burst mode helps mitigate the difficulty I have maintaining aim while trying to lock down a moving target, and the consequences for missing in the heat of the moment are heavy enough that I don't find it unbalanced to use, while also not being trigger-happy with it. I'm assuming this PR is mostly for classic players, though, so I'd be really interested to hear what other people's Burst Mode Experiences are

[Ikea]

as someone who is decidedly not a sec main, and also someone who plays using a trackpad, I feel like this would really inhibit my ability to be an effective secoff (and thus inhibit the fun I have) when I do play sec. burst mode helps mitigate the difficulty I have maintaining aim while trying to lock down a moving target, and the consequences for missing in the heat of the moment are heavy enough that I don't find it unbalanced to use, while also not being trigger-happy with it. I'm assuming this PR is mostly for classic players, though, so I'd be really interested to hear what other people's Burst Mode Experiences are

Maybe try to pick up taser smg? While burst currently makes it not that attractive, smg is great for when you have trouble maintaining aim, it just got a buff too!

[Chayot]

I use the Standard taser exclusively, take that as you will.

>Making the burst mode no longer one shot stun I feel would just make the mode never be used.
The triple burst taser is indeed very powerful and capable of shutting down very powerful antagonists/enemies.
However this isn't true in the case of all enemies. Gunbots, Arcfiends, SMES humans, Hunters, anyone on drugs.
Against such foes, triple-burst is not the "instant-down" that it is against other enemies/races.

Pretty often these days I fight antagonists that eat up burst like candy.
Just the other day I fought someone on drugs and landed my triple burst shots,
however I did not have enough time to follow up before they arose and ran around again.
Again, that was with Standard Taser's burst mode. Gunbots will not even go down, emptying burst into them.

> I think removing it would be the best. The burst mode makes the taser shotgun basically completely irrelevant.

Burst mode on the Taser doesn't make the Taser Shotgun irrelevant, as the Standard Taser came first.
The Shotgun's wide burst was never meant to be a replacement for burst-mode.
It was for people with difficulty aiming, especially at someone running around.
Therefore it doesn't make it irrelevant, but the shotgun simply offers different play-style.

Overall I wouldn't be opposed to removing burst from the game, however I don't see the necessity.

[Nihisohel]

while im not entirely opposed, you might as well lower the energy cost of each shot to compensate at the least

[Ikea]

while im not entirely opposed, you might as well lower the energy cost of each shot to compensate at the least

I seriously doubt that taser will need a buff, it still has the advantage of being an all around good gun that doesnt nudge you towards a specific combat style.

[babayetu83]

maybe that could be the taser's niche? softly introduce the features of the smg/shotgun as firing options while obviously not being as good as them

[Ikea]

The way you introduce the firing options of smg and shotgun is just using the shotgun/smg. Tasers niche is the boring and utilitarian gun and burst mode kinda ruins that.

[babayetu83]

The way you introduce the firing options of smg and shotgun is just using the shotgun/smg. Tasers niche is the boring and utilitarian gun and burst mode kinda ruins that.

i dunno, if i tried one and didn't really like it then i'd probably feel annoyed and be down a gun for the round. it'd be neat if you could go back to secvends and swap guns

[kyle2143]

Personally,
I've never used burst mode for anything short of a joke. But I dislike removing features on principle and having the option of an alt-fire mode adds a little bit of nuance even if it is admittedly not useful unless you can stack an inventory of tasers or large power cells.

I'd prefer if there was just a way to make burst was changed. And trying out different variations is far more interesting than simple removals. Such as (most simply)reducing the power+cost of individual shots in the bust mode to fill the niche of trying to hit someone who is moving quickly. Or even applying a short self-slow or root to the shooter of the weapon for a half second before the shot as a sort of "preparing to fire action" because you're "charging" a powerful shot.

[Nihisohel]

while im not entirely opposed, you might as well lower the energy cost of each shot to compensate at the least

I seriously doubt that taser will need a buff, it still has the advantage of being an all around good gun that doesnt nudge you towards a specific combat style.

your main PR is a removal which essentially just turns the taser into a wave gun without the increasing stun per tile gain and without the other features, energy cost should be lowered in compensation for the removal of burst since that is pretty much what most players choose taser for
otherwise id wager everyone else would just run wave gun which is literally just superior to the standard taser mode which doesnt even include the additional wallbang-floorstun mode and useless wallbounce mode

so, yes its as you say, this PR will turn the taser into a boring, utilitarian gun, i genuinely dont know why someone would take it at that point

following up on kyle, a single, powerful, charge up shot would be interesting, similar to how mega man does it in his games
-50 percent charge up and just does a slightly stronger normal charge
50- percent charge up and it can down someone, maybe in an AoE
100 percent charge up should probably damage electronics though (EMP lite???), just so that nobody can cheese it by holding their charge in an area

[Kotlol]

I see the tazer as this....
A handgun with a "shoot everything out in 1-2 shots" mode.

So burst mode is you expending most of your ammo if not all for some fast shooting.
Where as the shotgun and SMG speaks for itself...

Still nothing beats the det's gun. Not the original, the rewards one. Cause if you are skilled with it, you can do your own burst mode.

[TDHooligan]

I don't know why you specifically targetted burst as the sole reason the taser is picked so often. the shotgun and SMG are also two handed, both have spread, the taser is popular because it's easier to use, has a super efficient single-fire and doesnt make you look like a lunatic spraying into a crowd of people to tase one tider.

I never see anyone use the SMG, I never use it either, because two shot burst just feels like a worse single-shot burst, and full auto is purely for lunatics who want to get bullied by tiders.
The shotgun is super reliable, it's just bulky as hell. iirc it doesnt fit in the secbelt, but being able to have 6 rounds that also instantly stun at point blank is a huge step up in power. The only time the taser's burst comes close to the shotgun is when you're jumping someone who is too far for the shotgun instadown and is also just stood completely still.

[Ikea]

I never said it was the sole reason? I do feel it is a major reason though, as burst mode steps on the other guns modes a lot, why deal with a two handed weapon when a one handed weapon can do the same thing, may be a bit worse at it in some situations but it more then gets the job done.

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while im not entirely opposed, you might as well lower the energy cost of each shot to compensate at the least

I seriously doubt that taser will need a buff, it still has the advantage of being an all around good gun that doesnt nudge you towards a specific combat style.

your main PR is a removal which essentially just turns the taser into a wave gun without the increasing stun per tile gain and without the other features, energy cost should be lowered in compensation for the removal of burst since that is pretty much what most players choose taser for
otherwise id wager everyone else would just run wave gun which is literally just superior to the standard taser mode which doesnt even include the additional wallbang-floorstun mode and useless wallbounce mode

so, yes its as you say, this PR will turn the taser into a boring, utilitarian gun, i genuinely dont know why someone would take it at that point

Wavegun takes 7 tiles to get up to same power as taser, below that range taser is objectively better. Wavegun and the other guns will have a higher skill ceiling but thats fine, Id much prefer to see secoffs use the more mechanically interesting options then the taser. The main reason for the taser is its a jack of all trades, it doesnt have the range of wavegun, it doesnt have the close quarters combat of shotgun, nor the shot speed of smg, but it doesnt need too, because its a generalist gun thats fine in every scenario.

[TDHooligan]

unless there's a problem with the power of tasers i think they're in a fine state, and nerfing the popular thing so hard in the name of getting a little more variance is a step backwards imo. especially when the potential for instant stun is a big part of sec's threat.

one key problem i've found with the larger guns is that the larger cells dont really provide anything, as the tasers all have their unique ammo economy (if anything, it makes them worse when you have to reload smaller cells)

i think standardising the 25pu single-shot to all tasers (besides maybe wavegun) would bring them to relevance, suddenly the extra 100PU for the shotgun/smg matters more, you aren't forced to empty bullets into passerbys with the sidegrades either.

with this change, the taser is the one-handed 'all or nothing' gun, the larger guns actually have a more forgiving ammo econ (+100PU actually means 4 more shots), shotgun's no longer just for close-range stuns, the SMG is no longer just for wasting ammo either. I think there's probably some balancing work to follow that but I could definitely justify carrying a shotgun if it actually had more shots than a regular taser.