Cloning: A Discussion

[babayetu83]

rather than nerf cloning i would look into other avenues to make treating the injured easier because excess cloning is just a symptom of underskilled people playing doctor and not knowing how to perform surgery/treat different types of damage. try playing doctor/geneticist/roboticist long enough and you'll see just where the reliance on cloning comes from

like upon death give a brief window of time that would allow a defibrillator to restart a patient's heart

[Mouse]

Treating the injured isn't hard at all.  It's just a stubborn refusal by doctors to read the book they start with/pay attention to the health analyzer/listen to their patients who are desperately trying to walk them through it.

[Waffleloffle]

the game is overwhelming especially when you're new and having a safety net there helps make doctoring Actually Accessible rather than a job new people avoid out of fear of fucking up like engineering is

[TDHooligan]

cloning's power is there because the station is built around everyone being incompetent. it's not hard to get rid of cloning, either. a lot of people regulars playing the game put such high expectations on pubbie doctors and don't realise that doctoring can be incredibly stressful for new players.

Puritans gibbing on SR or something is smart, though. it was always meant to be a hardmode perk, not a 'treat my death in a special way' perk.

[Kotlol]

cloning's power is there because the station is built around everyone being incompetent. it's not hard to get rid of cloning, either. a lot of people regulars playing the game put such high expectations on pubbie doctors and don't realise that doctoring can be incredibly stressful for new players.

Puritans gibbing on SR or something is smart, though. it was always meant to be a hardmode perk, not a 'treat my death in a special way' perk.

Same as PUG is ment to be UBER HARD MODE. Cause you need alot of negative traits to get it and itself.. is mostly a negative trait with like 1 advantage. (2 if you go with cuteness)

[Cal]

cloning is just a symptom of underskilled people playing doctor and not knowing how to perform surgery/treat different types of damage.

I don't see an issue with that. We don't require people to make applications to play medical doctor or whatever. If they don't know how to treat you, at least they can clone you.

Treating the injured isn't hard at all.  It's just a stubborn refusal by doctors to read the book they start with/pay attention to the health analyzer/listen to their patients who are desperately trying to walk them through it.

The game is tremendously overwhelming to new players, and as a longtime player you should know this.

[Technature]

Treating the injured isn't hard at all.  It's just a stubborn refusal by doctors to read the book they start with/pay attention to the health analyzer/listen to their patients who are desperately trying to walk them through it.

The game is tremendously overwhelming to new players, and as a longtime player you should know this.

When I first introduced my brother to this game, one of the first things he did was accidentally drop his entire inventory because he clicked his uniform.

I do not expect the person with this much experience to:
1. Realize they have a book in their pocket.
2. Realize they can actually read the book in their pocket.
3. Know how to actually read the book in their pocket.

And people are much more likely to realize that someone doesn't know how to use the cloner properly than they are to realize that any given doctor may or may not be new beyond seeing them apply more advanced or obscure medical knowledge.

Stubborn refusal could only really be applied to people trying to walk them through the process.  Give new people some slack, just like more knowledgeable people no doubt gave you some.

[Kotlol]

cloning is just a symptom of underskilled people playing doctor and not knowing how to perform surgery/treat different types of damage.

I don't see an issue with that. We don't require people to make applications to play medical doctor or whatever. If they don't know how to treat you, at least they can clone you.

Treating the injured isn't hard at all.  It's just a stubborn refusal by doctors to read the book they start with/pay attention to the health analyzer/listen to their patients who are desperately trying to walk them through it.

The game is tremendously overwhelming to new players, and as a longtime player you should know this.

I pretty much agree with Cal here, even someone like me who is expirenced and can do most surgeries from the top of my head and what medicine to use, will get overwhelmed in medbay. Then again I am a det/chap main player.. but in any case...
During quiet shifts you wishing for something to do, you can always hit the chem dispenser or find silly ways to treat people or you know... be an EMT patrolling the station constantly for small injuries and treating them or getting someone to medbay via the port-a-medbay.

Overwhelming can happening to even expirenced players due to 1 bad moment in the shift or 1 bad bombing.

[babayetu83]

cloning is just a symptom of underskilled people playing doctor and not knowing how to perform surgery/treat different types of damage.

I don't see an issue with that. We don't require people to make applications to play medical doctor or whatever. If they don't know how to treat you, at least they can clone you.

Treating the injured isn't hard at all.  It's just a stubborn refusal by doctors to read the book they start with/pay attention to the health analyzer/listen to their patients who are desperately trying to walk them through it.

The game is tremendously overwhelming to new players, and as a longtime player you should know this.

so overwhelming in fact that it's like talking to a wall when offering advice/assistance

[Maegor]

Doctoring also requires a lot of getting used to. I took sometime before I developed my own strategies.

Back onto the topic, what would you think of removing monkey cloning? It feels like such a cheap way to bypass the cloning limitations. I'd be fine with switching bodies working if you use SR though.

[Decarcassor]

Yeah it does not make much sense that a foreign brain is cloned along the body. But SR is fine since its frankenstein reanimation juice.

But maybe increase the amount of SR required for it to work ? So you can't just make hundreds of pills from a small SR quantity by adding water.

Also we could question the ability of the cloner to clone borg arms or syntharms on peoples with theses traits.

[Kotlol]

Yeah it does not make much sense that a foreign brain is cloned along the body. But SR is fine since its frankenstein reanimation juice.

But maybe increase the amount of SR required for it to work ? So you can't just make hundreds of pills from a small SR quantity by adding water.

Also we could question the ability of the cloner to clone borg arms or syntharms on peoples with theses traits.

They don't give synth or borg arms... you lose those.

[TwoBraids]

Doctoring also requires a lot of getting used to. I took sometime before I developed my own strategies.

Back onto the topic, what would you think of removing monkey cloning? It feels like such a cheap way to bypass the cloning limitations. I'd be fine with switching bodies working if you use SR though.

As someone who mains doctor "weird science" cloning is one of the few interesting things I get to do as a doctor. It's also one of the few things that give me some interesting RP interactions with random players. Otherwise people are in and out, which is fine since they are doing their own thing, but bringing characters back from a bad death who wake up in a body not theirs has lead to interesting rounds for me RP wise. And being able to SM them back if they so wish has been fun. Most players also don't know how or don't want to put in the effort of reverse cloning. Some won't for RP reasons, too. I've found rotted corpses slabbed with warm brains a number of times in the morgue.

Topics about nerfing medbay mechanics make me pretty sad honestly.. give us more to do, not less.

[Decarcassor]

They don't give synth or borg arms... you lose those.

Not if you have the green fingers or robotic arms trait. I regulary see clones pop out with theses.

[babayetu83]

Doctoring also requires a lot of getting used to. I took sometime before I developed my own strategies.

Back onto the topic, what would you think of removing monkey cloning? It feels like such a cheap way to bypass the cloning limitations. I'd be fine with switching bodies working if you use SR though.

i don't really see the point, it just seems so incredibly arbitrary 


i would imagine if someone saw that puritan was preventing somebody from being cloned, their eyes would just glaze over before moving onto someone/something else. it should remain as a neat trick. because i don't feel like somebody unfamiliar with the medical system here would immediately go "oh, right! i should just turn a monkey into a human, cut the brain out, and put that dead guy's brain in and clone." let there be a sense of wonder and amazement when somebody thinks to experiment and try it, like somebody experimenting and discovering a deathchem or something like that. basically to echo what twobraids said, i think just chiseling away at things would make less people want to interface with these systems