Remove egun from HoS locker, have HoS spawn with it

[KikiMofo]

Again if people are hunting you immediately after you come off the arrivals shuttle that is an ahelpable situation.

[mralexs]

Again if people are hunting you immediately after you come off the arrivals shuttle that is an ahelpable situation.

Its not immediately after the shuttle, its usually on your way to sec if you latejoin and depending on the map that is quite a bit away. Latejoin HoS's have little to no protection from getting murdered if there is no sec checkpoint to grab normal sec gear

[KikiMofo]

It takes at most a minute to get to sec from any arrivals shuttle unless the station is already completely fucked. As an HoS the first thing I do is beeline straight to sec when I join so if someone decides to fuck me up in that minute between arriving and going to sec I'd think that would be an ahelpable situation because they are hunting you as soon as you get out of arrivals.
Well and if the station is already fucked up and it takes longer than a minute to get to sec then its probably time to call the shuttle anyway and no amount of Eguns will fix that situation.

[mralexs]

It takes at most a minute to get to sec from any arrivals shuttle unless the station is already completely fucked. As an HoS the first thing I do is beeline straight to sec when I join so if someone decides to fuck me up in that minute between arriving and going to sec I'd think that would be an ahelpable situation because they are hunting you as soon as you get out of arrivals.
Well and if the station is already fucked up and it takes longer than a minute to get to sec then its probably time to call the shuttle anyway and no amount of Eguns will fix that situation.

Again, if you can't make it to sec to get your gun there is no way you're getting to the comms console to call the shuttle.

[Kotlol]

It takes at most a minute to get to sec from any arrivals shuttle unless the station is already completely fucked. As an HoS the first thing I do is beeline straight to sec when I join so if someone decides to fuck me up in that minute between arriving and going to sec I'd think that would be an ahelpable situation because they are hunting you as soon as you get out of arrivals.
Well and if the station is already fucked up and it takes longer than a minute to get to sec then its probably time to call the shuttle anyway and no amount of Eguns will fix that situation.

Again, if you can't make it to sec to get your gun there is no way you're getting to the comms console to call the shuttle.

Pretty much this, if antags took over the station. You can expect that:

- Security is looted and gone.
- Bridge is taken over.
- AI subverted.

So yes.. having a gun won't change the outcome in the end, but it allows the HoS to maybe get to podbay safely...and leave.

[Retrino]

again, the point of there being a secbooth near arrivals (and a token in the pocket) is to avoid this exact situation. your egun doesnt give you immunity, going guns blazing isnt going to help you when everythings gone to shit. use your brain, not your gun. does it make it easier? sure, its a voice activated swiss army knife (for lawbringer fans), but nothing you couldnt accomplish without it unless your going looking for a fight. like kiki said, if youre getting mobbed right out of fucking arrivals, ahelp it

[Cal]

secbooth near arrivals

only on cog1 and donut3 really

[Nihisohel]

again, the point of there being a secbooth near arrivals (and a token in the pocket) is to avoid this exact situation. 

cog 1 player spotted

regardless of if sec is looted or not, a smart player can also just camp out in any of the sec vendor places for the incoming hos
revs is a terrible offender for this for normal sec players so id imagine that this could apply to most maps as well when a rampage has started

also taser and batons used to spawn on sec lockers as well, now thats been removed
food for thought

[Retrino]

again, the point of there being a secbooth near arrivals (and a token in the pocket) is to avoid this exact situation. 

cog 1 player spotted

cog 1? ok

donut 3

horizon

cog 2

oshan


you could make the argument that one is not directly next to arrivals on kondaru, but given that sec is a walk through the bar away (and there is a booth down the hall in escape) this kind of falls short


without even mentioning the stun meta that is our combat system, tasers and batons spawning in sec lockers isnt a great comparison either, because there is one single hos locker for any given map, but a handful and then some on any map PLUS debris sec lockers PLUS azone sec lockers, so

edit because it may come up: cog 2 arrival booth does have a token machine (what the fuck are they even called i dont remember), the goonhub map is just not updated

[Nihisohel]

sure, argument heard, another argument in favor

most antagonists besides traitors/spies are really tough to deal with even with stuns, much more on a rampaged station,
a versatile tool like the lawbringer or a lethal weapon like the egun can certainly help with remedying in that situation, or if not bringing oneself safely towards a comms console as previously mentioned
stuns most of the time wont do shit on say a vampire filled up on blood or a stun battle with arcfiends
dont even get me started with wizards
insurance from these types of antagonists would be certainly nice

and yeah sure, armory exists, but not a lot of players seem to choose to take it either from some personal honor rule or just does not seem necessary at the time to warrant getting a shotgun from it
and maybe players do take it and that its been found looted already
its an afterthought most of the time, you wouldnt (or at least i wouldnt) really go rushing towards an armory when youre trying to figure out what the hell went wrong

i personally dont agree that all weapons should be just left in a lockers to be stolen though, in the NTSCs case, you can pretty much just leave him effectively useless if the HoS is dead and the armory unopened if his items are stolen now that you cant order sec tokens anymore
or one can argue that the NTSCs taser is useless and that pretty much taking it just gives him a better stun weapon
its the same scenario for the captain, they are a high value target and the fact that the egun is tied to giving them their signature sword, despite it being dogshit useless, would be really devastating if the egun is stolen
or the fact that an egun has been stolen as is but yknow

[Ikea]

The difference between head gear thats in lockers versus gear that jobs spawn with is that while head gear in lockers is certainly nice to have, its not critical. Its not nice to get your belt stolen as CE, but like, you can still definitely do your job fine. Its honestly the same for lawbringer, sure lawbringer is a really nice gun, however you still are more then able to get other sec gear (and were probably going to anyways). Going into some rounds with more difficulty then normal I think is good, it helps spice up rounds (and makes it even more satisfying when you find the twerp who stole it in the first place and manage to get it back).

[KikiMofo]

Captains are are 100% chance spawn at round start and they start near their locker always. If a captain does not grab their Egun from the locker this is their own fault. So captain egun in locker is a nonargument.

HoS egun in their locker I believe is a good argument for people round starting as HoS more often if they don't want their gun stolen.

I dont believe you can round start as NTSO so they can probably keep their gun on them when they spawn.

Detectives gun while it is pretty strong it's not the detectives only use. A detective shouldn't be using their gun often anyway so I'd say it should start in the locker, PLUS what round doesn't have a round start detective? Everyone always has detective high on their list of jobs.

I'm not sure about any other guns from round start. Can you guys remind me if there are more?

[Retrino]

personally think the whole honor system of not using the armory is just a bad mindset, i get if its very low stress shift but if youre talking about an extreme situation. like, station is awful condition, your gun is stolen, etc…. thats the exact scenario that the armory would be useful for? it seems really counterproductive to complain about not spawning with something but having a personal bias against using a whole room of tools put there to do exactly the thing youre wanting to get done, done

aside from that, antags being a challenge to deal with is honestly a good thing? getting styled on during your antag round because the big baddie hos spawned with their 18-in-1 supergun is kind of not fun gameplay. not winning every fight youre in isnt the end of the world. like i said before, you have tools around you that arent just your gun to help do something about the situation. vampires take brute from their anti stun, frost bats are annoying to deal with but like. running is an option. fucking off somewhere and not going straight into a fight is a totally viable option (because again, being hunted down straight out of arrivals is an ahelpable thing, and unless someone beelines for you or youre just really fucking unlucky, the chances of this happening are pretty low). someone is rampaging? thats just one guy you have to avoid long enough to order ai to call the shuttle or get to the comms console

i also think theres something to be said for the midround role joining announcements for command, i dont think its necessary to have them with huge bold text when its like. 30 minutes in. probably in some part contributes to the big X mark that hos’s feel like they have when joining, and honestly has dissuaded me from joining as it at times

[DioChasek]

I'm not sure about any other guns from round start. Can you guys remind me if there are more?

The chaplain also starts with their gun on them as well as the bartender with their shotgun. Neither are particularly overpowered weapons mind you but they do have them.

[KikiMofo]

I'm not sure about any other guns from round start. Can you guys remind me if there are more?

The chaplain also starts with their gun on them as well as the bartender with their shotgun. Neither are particularly overpowered weapons mind you but they do have them.

Ah good point. I believe the bartenders shotgun SHOULD start in the locker. I thought it did? Did that get changed?
As far as the chaplains gun goes I don't really know much about that one. Doesnt it have like two shots to it?

Also the whole armory thing about people not using because ????
I never really got that either. When I play HoS I will use the armory if I think the situation calls for it. I dont feel any shame or anything from it. The armory is there to be used when it needs to be used. Otherwise whats it for? Just a loot box for people to break into?
Only thing I would say about not using it is like authing it immediately at round start or something. That's just bad sec stuff.