Make the robusted donuts cost 2 utility credits

[Ikea]

Power creep? Whats that

[Mr. Moriarty]

Thus I recommend it becoming the detectives ranged scanner cause that would be an upgrade and a reason to purcase it.

Adding a range to forensics scanners feels like an arbitrary "buff" for the sake of providing it with more features, without any meaningful design behind it; I don't think I have ever found the range on the Detective's scanner useful. Ranged atmospheric scanners, however, are useful because oftentimes the gas being scanned is not necessarily gas that would be healthy to be standing in (hellburns, etc.). This is just my personal experience with the ranged forensics scanner, other's experiences may differ.

I should correct myself from earlier too, by "more in depth forensics mechanics", I really should have said that if the scanner were to be buffed, it should be by allowing forensics to have a heavier presence in Security work.

[DioChasek]

Power creep? Whats that

If everything is “broken” nothing is broken.

[Mouse]

I feel the need to point out that the robusted donuts were added because the first aid kit secoffs could buy was letting them heal too well without having to involve medbay.

The robusted donuts are much, much better at healing than a first aid kit.  Honestly they're probably better than a fucking syndicate donk pocket.

[Cal]

The robusted donuts are much, much better at healing than a first aid kit.  Honestly they're probably better than a fucking syndicate donk pocket.

As someone with 530 HoS rounds, the donuts are an average healing source with epi that you can get at any paid meds4u or medvend.

They do their job well - Giving secoffs a healing source so they don't scrounge from the Medbay. I would be fine with it going back to 1 donut each I guess, but they are worse than a regular donk (Do not heal toxin or fire, if you eat one when neurotoxin'd it turns into green goop in you irradiating you to hell)

Syndie donks are a one bite cure-all with non-addictive meth to boot. The comparison is absolutely not 1:1.

[Mouse]

I've healed out from deep red to full from a single bite of the robusted donuts.  Are you sure you're not thinking of the robust donuts?

[Froggit_Dogget]

idk my biggest issue with them is that sec always has robusted donuts, so anytime you crit one of them, they pull out for a bit, eat a donut, and then 30 seconds later are completely fine. If they were limited to 2 each, theyd still have that capability, but theyd have to go to medbay the second or third time you crit them out, whereas now they usually have 4!? of the robusted donuts, which doesnt even get into the issue of robust donuts and how its impossible to outrun sec who have them.

[Cal]

After testing, I've found out they do heal pretty well. I don't think it'd be too bad to remove a red donut or whatever, but it's certainly no donk pocket or syndie pocket.

(healed me to 50% from 7% in one bite from pure brute)

[nefarious6th]

relatedly, the lazy man's patch, no fine-tuning necessary:
https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/9041

[Kotlol]

So we all agree now that they need a nerf or decrease the number by 1?

It won't effect the selection in the long run as much. We might see more nades or injectors, but that's it. Everyone will have that bloody donut anyway cause in the end it's still better then half the other selections due to them being available on station for anyone to pick up.

[Nihisohel]

relatedly, the lazy man's patch, no fine-tuning necessary:
https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/9041

as a sec main that doesnt use these things, i find them really powerful when they ARE used, more so when a box is fitted with it,

while decreasing to only 1 of each donut type could help, nobody can stop anyone from using their other util (or some newsecs stray util) for another box, which still remains the issue of it being overpowered to shit

- sec gets healing from donuts
- the special donuts have more bites than normal
- the special donuts have heal stims filling its entire container
- coupled with survivalist can pretty much uncrit a guy almost immediately
- the accompanying stamina buff too

in my opinion, the argument of sec shouldnt rely on medical or step on the medical shoes (in an rp perspective) is stupid, a secoff should definitely know how to save oneself and not being a bumbling fuck about it, which makes the usage of donuts pumped with healing shit is an even stupider take to this argument

sec should die when they will die, not get a second on the field chance at it, if they want the special donuts, by all means keep some in the armory or literally just pump a normal donut with the appropriate meds

[nefarious6th]

this thread definitely has given a lot to think on for me. I made my PR as a very quick thing based off what a few of the suggestions (namely the easiest to implement ones) were, but ppl are definitely welcome to submit alternative patches following any of the other ideas here. I'm not trying to fix the donut problem specifically, it was just easy enough to do while I had vsc open, and likewise i now have vsc closed and dont want to touch it again for 2 months

I'd almost like a trial removal of them for like 2 weeks or something. they're good for newbs; I use my donuts mostly on other people on RP during radstorms and crit situations. I dont think I've touched them once when I take them on classic lol. somewhat to Nile's point, I move too slow on classic to go "oh! donut time!" when I'm dying heh.


nah, I think my main idea I wanted to share was that I wouldn't mind seeing what frogget suggested with making the single donut in the sec pouch one of these and then axing the utility completely. i obvs have concerns about Spawning With Too Much Crap (I hate u, whistle). but I guess it's also just...REALLY telling that if donuts were removed and I was sitting here with my just a baton 3 utility credits, instead of the 1 donuts, 1 morphine I usually take, I would end up taking...maybe morphine. maybe. and not even pivoting my use case of my token to something else but just straight up opting not to use it. nothing else in the vendor is really worth it, but that's a whole other issue that's a symptomatic one from the vendor utility choices overall versus something caused directly by the donuts being there

yeah. lot to think on here and I'm not entirely sure I even have a solution to propose at this point for any of it. any other input greatly appreciated

[Mouse]

After testing, I've found out they do heal pretty well. I don't think it'd be too bad to remove a red donut or whatever, but it's certainly no donk pocket or syndie pocket.

(healed me to 50% from 7% in one bite from pure brute)

Don't test them on just pure brute, I'm reasonably sure they have saline and they might have ephedrine as well.  I don't really want to join as secoff just to reagent scan a donut though so if someone who knows who to look through the code could tell us exactly what's in the robusted donuts (only the robust donuts are on the wiki) that would, I think, help in judging how much healing they can do.

[Nihisohel]

robust
name = "robust donut"
desc = "It's like an energy bar, but in donut form! Contains some chemicals known for partial stun time reduction and boosted stamina regeneration."
icon_state = "donut4"
bites_left = 6
initial_volume = 48
initial_reagents = list("sugar"=12,"synaptizine"=12,"epinephrine"=12,"salicylic_acid"=12)

robusted
name = "robusted donut"
desc = "A donut for those harsh moments. Contains a mix of chemicals for cardiac emergency recovery and any minor trauma that accompanies it."
icon_state = "donut5"
bites_left = 6
initial_volume = 48
initial_reagents = list("salbutamol"=12,"epinephrine"=12,"saline"=12,"salicylic_acid"=12)


12 may not seem like a lot but the other chems stacking just makes it heal good
not to mention sec heals from eating donuts

[Cal]

Don't test them on just pure brute

already did I just didnt post it here