Complaint Catface, Goon 3, 20.3.2022.

[LukasC2]

Admin: Catface

Server: Goonstation 3: Morty
Date + time: Around 9PM Central European Time (CET; UTC+01:00), 20th March 2022.

Synopsis: I'm going to start of by saying I haven't really been banned a lot in games so this comes as a surprise to me. The fact that I have to write this is pretty sad. I always worried so much about getting banned on goon with it's strict rules regarding antags, so much so that I never really left my comfort zone when it comes to guns and murder in-game. I had some fairly fun roleplay ideas that where ruined by the thought of getting banned. So I sit here writing this to shed some light on my unfortunate situation. First thing I want to point out is that the Quartermaster sells lethal weapons under the experimental security tab and anybody with sufficient access can open it. That being said it is not illegal (Space Law) or against the rules to own a lethal weapon. Firing it however is a different story, more on that in a bit. Second thing to point out is that the HoP that round had no problem with me getting a lethal and even opened it for me. The detective who I want to mention was also using lethal rounds from the revolver he spawns with similarly had no problem with me owning and even firing my lethal. Personally I think that my ban was unjust for the fact that it was in good faith and roleplay. Nobody seemed to have a problem with it in ooc after. The only person I could think of that could have been upset was the cyborg who had an erebite cell and exploded upon being shoot, which I didn't mean to shoot. For the most part I was following the storyline that the detective had and thought maybe it would be fun to play along. At the time I didn't think of the possibility that the detective could have had an antag role. However. There remains inconsistencies in this round. One of the cyborg that round stabbed the clown that I also shoot making that three people who violated the rules that I was banned for. I find it hard to believe that the HoP would casually let me have a lethal, that the Detective would be an antag, and that that previously mentioned borg was emagged. And besides the detective encouraged me to shoot at the clown despite not knowing if I myself was an antag and even gave me his own full permission. And the HoP unwillingly gave me his permission by giving me the access to a lethal gun in the first place. As far as I am aware the clown was attacking the detective with his own lethals, as he himself said so. Making it somewhat acceptable to shot those lethals at the clown. I wasn't blatantly trying to ruin the round and be an asshole shooting everyone, I wanted my part in the RP and I didn't think I would get punished for it. I have been playing this server for well over 6 months and not once was it my intention to grief or make things bad for other players. Matter of fact I fully support this server and think it's one of the best out there, and to have my reputation tainted by this ban is horrible. This has not only ruined my desire to play but also has handicapped me with future applications if I ever choose to do so. The rules are not clear about non antag actions that could result in bans and they make it look like mass rdm and blatant griefing is all that you can get banned for. I don't believe I would get banned if I did any of this as another role but I get that security is tough on these rules. With all of that in mind I don't understand how in a game where you can do almost anything roleplay related I get banned for a mishap on my behalf.

Extra information: I'm sure any admin viewing this can check the logs and get the names of the players in that round, considering some other people might have broken the rules as well. My discord is LukasC2#1029 if you need anything from me directly.

[Katzen]

Even on classic the job of security is to attempt to arrest and detain except against a known dangerous antag. Sec are not given lethal weapons without armory authorisation for very good reasons and their current kit and playstyle is the result of 10+ years experimentation with how to make security work as a role. Security aren't cops.
This event occurred on the roleplay server, the expectations of security are even higher with lethal force being an extreme situation. It's likely an RP HoS would demote you for going out of your way to acquire a lethal firearm, let alone shooting someone unless they were themselves using lethal weapons.

You hit a guy with a fancy pen which seemingly offended him into hitting you with wirecutters, another security officer starts stunning with a wave gun and you decide to start shooting with the Clock 180 where you managed to shoot a borg, detonate it's erebite power cell killing the borg and causing a 23 power explosion in the courtroom. This isn't how a sec officer behaves and certainly not how it works on RP. You don't just acquire a gun and start shooting when a situation occurs, that is an attitude that leads to security job ban.

FWIW any ban 24 hours or less is effectively the same as a warning as far as admins are concerned.

[LukasC2]

Even on classic the job of security is to attempt to arrest and detain except against a known dangerous antag. Sec are not given lethal weapons without armory authorisation for very good reasons and their current kit and playstyle is the result of 10+ years experimentation with how to make security work as a role. Security aren't cops.
This event occurred on the roleplay server, the expectations of security are even higher with lethal force being an extreme situation. It's likely an RP HoS would demote you for going out of your way to acquire a lethal firearm, let alone shooting someone unless they were themselves using lethal weapons.

You hit a guy with a fancy pen which seemingly offended him into hitting you with wirecutters, another security officer starts stunning with a wave gun and you decide to start shooting with the Clock 180 where you managed to shoot a borg, detonate it's erebite power cell killing the borg and causing a 23 power explosion in the courtroom. This isn't how a sec officer behaves and certainly not how it works on RP. You don't just acquire a gun and start shooting when a situation occurs, that is an attitude that leads to security job ban.

FWIW any ban 24 hours or less is effectively the same as a warning as far as admins are concerned.

I want to preface this by saying that I don't understand how a 24 hour ban is a warning? It's a ban, It stays on record. It disables you from playing for a certain period of time. Why not just PM me in that case? Now on the topic of lethal weapons. If they aren't allowed, why does the detective spawn with a lethal revolver? Why does cargo sell a "Experimental" package for security that contains a lethal weapon? None of these things make sense if the whole point is to not be lethal. I understand the severity of it. But it's RP. Unlike the classic servers. RP has way more potential to express yourself. For example, a non antag buying a weapon from cargo and killing people WITH a valid RP reason does not constitute a ban in my opinion, BECAUSE they had a valid RP reason. Not everyone has to be an antag to commit a crime. That is the whole point of security too, to keep order on the station. Let's say a non antag killer is on the loose. Hell that even makes the round more interesting for sec and some other people. The rules here are unclear on what's roleplay and what's supposed to be antag behaviour. What's the whole point of an antag anyways? To differentiate between a bad guy and a good guy? Sometimes people want to play the bad guy and can't because they don't spawn as antag, the chances of that are slim to begin with. Why not just use failrp or rdm rules in that case? And on the topic of that. Goonstation as a whole is intended to be a user friendly, new player, light roleplay experience, so why punish someone for something they don't understand? I understand I didn't do a great job as sec that round, admittedly not my best play. And I take my blame for that. HOWEVER the game's systems allow that to happen, they allow people with access to get a weapon no problem. And the amount of times I have been given a gun from the captain or so on is crazy. I haven't used any of my previously given lethals because as I mentioned I had no RP reason for it. I was simply following the detective in that round that time. If the case of me shooting that gun was the result of this ban and not the explosion of that borg which I mentioned was an accident. Then the detective deserves a ban as well. He might not have shot a borg causing it to explode but the did shoot lethals undeniably. One more thing I want to mention is that missclicks happen all the time, in the heat of it all nobody is looking at what hand they have selected. Leading me to accidentally hit someone ONCE with a fountain pen, hitting me back with wire cutters resulting in me getting stabbed multiple times isn't at all an appropriate response to getting hit with a PEN. This isn't John Wick. My decision to shoot was entirely influenced by the detective who I mentioned even encouraged me to do so. And this reply from you didn't really give any feedback on anything I said before and rather pointed out once again how I shot the borg and the clown and how I hit someone with a fountain pen. Which was either an accident OR was a direct result of being influenced by the detective.

[Mrfishstick]

We’re not putting more effort into litigating a 24h ban with you.

You’re seriously overblowing how much anyone cares about a 24h ban, both among the admin staff and within the greater community of players. It isn’t going to bar you from applying for whitelist roles down the road and had you not made this thread calling attention to it, no one outside of the admin staff would have ever known it had happened.

You hugely over escalated while playing as security on one of the role-playing servers and were punishing accordingly. None of this is going to change with your further posting in this thread, so I am going to do a big favor and save you further public embarrassment by just locking this thread here.