Complaint Unknown admin, unknown server, unknown time

[Deadvickyart]

Admin: Don't know
Server : Don't know
Date + Time: Also don't know.
Synopsis: Allegedly harassment happened between an admin and one of my friends, there was a sexual element involved because they were "furryfied" and mocked, while given a weird furry babytalk trait. On hearing this I made a PR to delete these genetics traits. See "Removes catperson and all owotalk variants #7524"
Extra Information: I think this thread is a waste of time as I wasn't there for the incident and the person who was doesn't want their name revealed but I was told to make it on github before my PR can be un-locked and my comment privleges are restored. I just want to remove the dumb sexual references that shouldn't be in the game.

[walpvrgis]

Without any clearer context, there's no way for us to determine if any harassment occurred. Unless you provide information on the incident that we can verify, we cannot take action on your allegations of an unknown admin sexually harassing someone. Many admins have made players into the catpeople mutantrace and given them accents. And that in and of itself doesn't constitute as harassment.

This isn't to say that we don't wish to look into this situation however. If you and/or your friend are uncomfortable discussing this in public, would one of you be willing to ahelp or use the ]report or ]reportanon on Discord (DM MedicalAssistant#2828 to get started)? This is so we can get more details, such as an approximate timeframe for when this happened, and which server this was on.

[Deadvickyart]

Without any clearer context, there's no way for us to determine if any harassment occurred. Unless you provide information on the incident that we can verify, we cannot take action on your allegations of an unknown admin sexually harassing someone. Many admins have made players into the catpeople mutantrace and given them accents. And that in and of itself doesn't constitute as harassment.

This isn't to say that we don't wish to look into this situation however. If you and/or your friend are uncomfortable discussing this in public, would one of you be willing to ahelp or use the ]report or ]reportanon on Discord (DM MedicalAssistant#2828 to get started)? This is so we can get more details, such as an approximate timeframe for when this happened, and which server this was on.

I aplogise if i haven't made it clear enough, I have no intention of making a thing out of this and I don't think the grilling for info is appropriate. I just want to remove the traits because it seemed like an easy and uncontroversial fix.

[Grifflez]

I aplogise if i haven't made it clear enough, I have no intention of making a thing out of this and I don't think the grilling for info is appropriate. I just want to remove the traits because it seemed like an easy and uncontroversial fix.

Uhh, no. The grilling for info is very appropriate. You have alleged that an administrator of this community has sexually harassed someone you know. Removing the catperson/accents doesn't excise this person from the community.

[Deadvickyart]

Forgive me if i'm wrong but won't tracking down the incident out their username? That's a lot of responsibility I don't want forced on me.

---

I'd also rather not hear specifics about this kind of thing which is why I never asked what the admin's name was. If you can't respect that, I don't know what to tell you.

[Mrfishstick]

You accused a project staff member of engaging in sexual harassment but when pressed for even the slightest details like "who did this", you're going to try and just wave it off by saying you "have no intention of making a thing out of this"?

This is an *extremely* serious accusation and not one that can just be let go of easily. sexual harassment is something which would result in immediate and permanent dismissal from the server and surrounding communities for anyone to have been found engaging in, be they player, admin, or developer.

With this accusation we've escalated well beyond the point anyone gives a still gives a shit about a cat based mutant race and are now dealing with potentially real-world  criminal activity. This is a claim which is so serious you don't get to half invoke it in order to push through a fucking code change. It's either going to end in a staff member dismissed from the project or serious consequences for trying to invoke something so heinous as sexual harassment just to get a commit pushed.

[Deadvickyart]

You accused a project staff member of engaging in sexual harassment but when pressed for even the slightest details like "who did this", you're going to try and just wave it off by saying you "have no intention of making a thing out of this"?

This is an *extremely* serious accusation and not one that can just be let go of easily. sexual harassment is something which would result in immediate and permanent dismissal from the server and surrounding communities for anyone to have been found engaging in, be they player, admin, or developer.

With this accusation we've escalated well beyond the point anyone gives a still gives a shit about a cat based mutant race and are now dealing with potentially real-world  criminal activity. This is a claim which is so serious you don't get to half invoke it in order to push through a fucking code change. It's either going to end in a staff member dismissed from the project or serious consequences for trying to invoke something so heinous as sexual harassment just to get a commit pushed.

The sheer anger and vitriole i'm getting over this just makes me feel better about not naming names. I'm not outing someone on my IRC to the people they have accusations about. If you feel like this absolutely cannot stand, investigate and talk to them yourself.

>With this accusation we've escalated well beyond the point anyone gives a still gives a shit about a cat based mutant race

Not true, I still give a shit.

[Grifflez]

The sheer anger and vitriole i'm getting over this just makes me feel better about not naming names. I'm not outing someone on my IRC to the people they have accusations about. If you feel like this absolutely cannot stand, investigate and talk to them yourself.

Yes, this sort of response happens when you bring up criminal wrong-doing and refuse to assist in letting us know more about it. 'investigate and talk to them yourself' doesn't mean a thing when you won't even give the name of the administrator who engaged in these gross activities.

Not true, I still give a shit.

This stopped being about you or code changes a while ago. This is now about investigating these allegations so any gross administrators on staff can be rightfully tossed out the door. If you don't tell us who the crimer is, we can't punish the crime.

[Deadvickyart]

Yes, this sort of response happens when you bring up criminal wrong-doing and refuse to assist in letting us know more about it. 'investigate and talk to them yourself' doesn't mean a thing when you won't even give the name of the administrator who engaged in these gross activities.

Too bad. I don't know, I don't want to know. I wasn't lying when I put unknown in the title. I don't want to hear about sexual abuse at all for any reason and the fact I'm being questioned so hard on this with such language.

This stopped being about you or code changes a while ago. This is now about investigating these allegations so any gross administrators on staff can be rightfully tossed out the door. If you don't tell us who the crimer is, we can't punish the crime.

This is still about the code because I was told this was a necessary step to get my changes put forward. If you're angry that this thread exists at all, blame the person who told me to make it.

And I just want to reiterate, I don't feel comfortable revealing my friend's identity because with all this fire-and-brimestone shit about how THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES, I just don't expect you guys will use the info in good faith.

I don't want to discuss this further.

[Gerhazo]

Hello, between preliminary skimming of the logs showing nothing of the sort had occured recently (albeit it was very much skimming), the PR and you yourself mentioning "wanting to remove the dumb sexual references that shouldn't be in the game.", this scenario feels fabricated, particularly since you seem to care more about pushing your changes (that this seems to be trying to garner support towards) than a potential predator being present or the fact that your friend was apparently targetted by them.

Especially considering even if those were implemented, they wouldn't stop this kind of harassment from being possible.


edit/addendum to forementioned:

This is still about the code because I was told this was a necessary step to get my changes put forward. If you're angry that this thread exists at all, blame the person who told me to make it.

Assuming you're not telling us to blame your friend, because that seems like an outlandish position to have, there is nothing in your PR comments telling you that this is the method of having it approved. The only seemingly related thing there is advising you to make a thread for the alleged harassment to be investigated and resolved, nothing specifies doing it for purposes of having your changes merged (which still appears to be the higher priority here for some reason, when it really shouldn't).

[Mrfishstick]

This is still about the code because I was told this was a necessary step to get my changes put forward. If you're angry that this thread exists at all, blame the person who told me to make it.

I am unaware of the step in the PR process which requires you to accuse a member of Goonstation Staff of committing sexual harassment in order to get a code review. 

And to clarify we're not asking you to out any victim of a harassment situation, just that you provide us the barest of details so we can get this person off of our staff. As it stands, you're currently simultaneously accusing someone of harassment and also enabling them to remain in a position of authority over a community of thousands. A code change to remove a fucking catgirl joke race is not going to protect anyone. You're literally invoking a criminal act to try and force a goddamn code merge and being upset we're focusing on the crime part and not the code part of this situation.

[Deadvickyart]

This is still about the code because I was told this was a necessary step to get my changes put forward. If you're angry that this thread exists at all, blame the person who told me to make it.

I am unaware of the step in the PR process which requires you to accuse a member of Goonstation Staff of committing sexual harassment in order to get a code review. 

And to clarify we're not asking you to out any victim of a harassment situation, just that you provide us the barest of details so we can get this person off of our staff. As it stands, you're currently simultaneously accusing someone of harassment and also enabling them to remain in a position of authority over a community of thousands. A code change to remove a fucking catgirl joke race is not going to protect anyone. You're literally invoking a criminal act to try and force a goddamn code merge and being upset we're focusing on the crime part and not the code part of this situation.

Frankly, not my problem. I don't run your staff. Please don't blame me for sexual harassment on the server or "enabling" sexual predators.

Hello, between preliminary skimming of the logs showing nothing of the sort had occured recently (albeit it was very much skimming), the PR and you yourself mentioning "wanting to remove the dumb sexual references that shouldn't be in the game.", this scenario feels fabricated, particularly since you seem to care more about pushing your changes (that this seems to be trying to garner support towards) than a potential predator being present or the fact that your friend was apparently targetted by them.

Especially considering even if those were implemented, they wouldn't stop this kind of harassment from being possible.


edit/addendum to forementioned:

This is still about the code because I was told this was a necessary step to get my changes put forward. If you're angry that this thread exists at all, blame the person who told me to make it.

Assuming you're not telling us to blame your friend, because that seems like an outlandish position to have, there is nothing in your PR comments telling you that this is the method of having it approved. The only seemingly related thing there is advising you to make a thread for the alleged harassment to be investigated and resolved, nothing specifies doing it for purposes of having your changes merged (which still appears to be the higher priority here for some reason, when it really shouldn't).

I'm not seeking to fix all harassment problems, I just want to remove one thing that was used to bully someone I know. But whatever, I've said I don't want to talk about sexual abuse and you guys clearly don't respect my wishes on that.

I am not particularly fond of the part where you claim to take complaints of this nature seriously but then immediately close ranks to call me a liar, invent reasons for me to lie and also say that it wouldn't be sexual harassment if it happened. But I am not surprised.

[Gerhazo]

I am not particularly fond of the part where you claim to take complaints of this nature seriously but then immediately close ranks to call me a liar, invent reasons for me to lie and also say that it wouldn't be sexual harassment if it happened. But I am not surprised.

We do, hence being insistent on asking for something we can work off of, otherwise this complaint/feedback is inactionable.

The situation feels fabricated because your first line of action was a PR to remove content rather than trying to address the alleged issue: a predatory staff member, the lack of information on which making it impossible to act upon, also your proposed changes not in any way being a satisfactory conclusion to a situation like this.

That being said, taking the complaint seriously and as has been mentioned: unfortunately unless your friend wishes to speak up there will likely be no further development, as we couldn't find anything to support this having happened.

If they do decide to, please let us know, I don't believe them doing so would endanger or otherwise expose them, as under the scenario you've described the alleged staff would already know who's involved, whereas for the rest of us it would allow us to take action.

[Flourish]

This is still about the code because I was told this was a necessary step to get my changes put forward. If you're angry that this thread exists at all, blame the person who told me to make it.

Hi, this was my comment on your PR -

Besides the fact that your PR is purposefully worded in a very inflammatory way, could you explain what you mean by "an admin sexually harassed them using these traits" in an admin feedback thread or ahelp? Sexual harassment is a very serious issue and we should investigate and address claims of it properly rather than making a PR on Github and briefly mentioning it there.

Nowhere did I say that making an admin feedback thread was a prerequisite for getting your PR merged. In fact, your PR had already been closed by the time I made this comment. I made this comment because, again, sexual harassment is a very serious issue and should be investigated and addressed properly.

Echoing what other admins have already said; the thing that enables someone to sexually harass others would be their access to the community, not a cat mutation and some accent mutations. Removing the mutations does not resolve the issue of sexual harassment. 

And I just want to reiterate, I don't feel comfortable revealing my friend's identity because with all this fire-and-brimestone shit about how THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES, I just don't expect you guys will use the info in good faith.

If an admin sexually harassed someone, there absolutely should be consequences. Sexual harassment isn’t something we can just wave off; it should be addressed and dealt with to the fullest extent, especially if it was an admin (someone in a position of power and authority in the community) doing it.

Making a claim that an admin sexually harassed a player and refusing to give any further information that would help us investigate and address this issue leaves us at an impasse. We literally do not know which admin you’re talking about and we have no context for when or how the alleged harassment occurred. 

You say that an admin sexually harassed your friend, but you will not provide any of the following: the name of the admin, a timeframe for when this incident occurred, which server it happened on, any context or details on the sexual harassment, or any logs of what had happened. Your priority still seems to be removing some mutations you view as “ERP” rather than dealing with the person you say sexually harassed your friend. I hope you can understand why this is concerning and why we keep asking for more details - this lack of information means we are unable to do anything about the alleged sexual harasser (as we have terabytes of logs and no direction as to which ones to investigate) and are therefore basically enabling their behavior.

If you and/or your friend are uncomfortable discussing this in public, would one of you be willing to ahelp or use the ]report or ]reportanon on Discord (DM MedicalAssistant#2828 to get started)? This is so we can get more details, such as an approximate timeframe for when this happened, and which server this was on.

I urge you to do this if you're uncomfortable discussing this in public.