Complaint Unnamed admin, but really just all admins, Goon 3 and 4, past week or so

[SirDavosSeaworth]

Admin: Unnamed, unimportant.

Server: RP servers.
Date + time: Past week.
Synopsis: RP servers have been swarmed with griefers, self-antags, jackasses and ERPers, but for some reason only the last one is ever getting any admin attention. There are dozens of recurring people on RP servers that literally self-antag or troll every round, numerous people have admin helped them and they're seemingly always around, never getting punished. Meanwhile, you have time to ban me for exploding a station 5 seconds before round end when nobody is on board or if they are it's because they voluntarily stayed back to watch the explosion. Which hurt no one, and impacted the round in literally no way at all. Come on.. Like, alright, fine, I made an explosion before round end, that's grief(despite being completely irrelevant and harmless and being synonymous to exploding a derelict station in the debris field with nobody on it), ban me. But then can you actually do what you're supposed to and get rid of the hordes of blatant trolls actually ruining people's rounds, when you have time to pick on me? Literally anything seriously destructive I do always happens at or just before round end even when I play antagonist, but Johnny Jackass who runs around as Captain barging into places to randomly make explosives or start cooking instead of the chef before proceeding to validhunt people with his gun is still allowed to run around days later.

[Leeanei]

We've been banning trolls this whole time(and respond to most ahelps to boot!), but we never permaban on the first offense, which is what some people seem to want. Day bans for consistent poor play are more likely(you might have recently been made aware of this), which subsequently escalate into longer bans until the player is permanently banned.

Please remember to ahelp shitters, we get far less ahelps than people claim to send us.

[SirDavosSeaworth]

We've been banning trolls this whole time(and respond to most ahelps to boot!), but we never permaban on the first offense, which is what some people seem to want. Day bans for consistent poor play are more likely(you might have recently been made aware of this), which subsequently escalate into longer bans until the player is permanently banned.

Please remember to ahelp shitters, we get far less ahelps than people claim to send us.

Please elaborate on how destroying the station after everyone who could leave have left and are in no danger of being affected by it is "poor play".
Affected the round? Nope - round was seconds from being over.
Robbed anybody from some meaningless Spacebux? - Nope, you need to escape for that, you are essentially dead if you don't - all pods were gone and shuttle was seconds from CentComm. (And even if they weren't, blast radius didn't extend to escape)
Robbed anybody from some similarly meaningless stay alive objective? - Nope, again, need to escape for that one.

Furthermore, it was perfectly justifiable IC and the Captain also made an explicit order not to stop the countdown, which means I would've actually broken the rules if I did, considering it didn't hurt humans.

Also the only ahelp I've received a response to was about ERP, none of the blatant griefing, so I'm personally not seeing any responses.

[Leeanei]

You were on default laws, setting off the nuke violates default laws, there were crew still on station. Thus, the day ban. The majority of ahelps are handled even if we don't remember to respond to the original ahelper. We do not always give people a rundown after we are satisfied with the situation, to protect the identity of antags and because the business/punishment of others isn't your place. We don't have a 'player complaints' or 'ban requests' forum for a reason.

[SirDavosSeaworth]

You were on default laws, setting off the nuke violates default laws, there were crew still on station. Thus, the day ban. The majority of ahelps are handled even if we don't remember to respond to the original ahelper. We do not always give people a rundown after we are satisfied with the situation, to protect the identity of antags and because the business/punishment of others isn't your place. We don't have a 'player complaints' or 'ban requests' forum for a reason.

I never said the punishment of others was my place. You yourself claimed that you respond to most ahelps.
Going by this logic, why isn't every regular AI player on goon3 and 4 permabanned yet?

I violate my laws once which has no effect on anybody and instantly get banned for a day,(Which I didn't even know about, considering I couldn't see any players except like 1 who claimed he wanted to watch and they had more than 6 minutes to leave or get out of the blast radius - according to this even opening a random door could break laws if a staffie uses a component he got from said door 5 minutes later to shoot someone with a zip gun or something. Unlike the AI rp suggests, I'm not omniscient.) most AI players I play with violate laws, especially 2 regularly and act like they're a Captain with just some suggestions guiding them as a playstyle and they're still around doing the same things.

Again, if you completely ignore morals and just strictly adhere to the letters of the rules, that's fine by me - but then don't make exceptions. If you were really operating like you did with me all the shitters on 3 and 4 would've been wiped off the face of the earth 2-3 days after they surfaced.

[Leeanei]

Setting off the nuke when you did is an extraordinarily dumb thing to do and extraordinarily clearly against every plausible set of rules: general, RP and AI. This would have gone with a warning without a prior ahelp where you had incredible difficulty understanding that chasing someone with a phaser does not constitute self-defense. These facts combined are why you have to take a single day off playing and go do something else.

Plenty of people recently have been given short breaks, trust me. You are not the only one.

[SirDavosSeaworth]

Setting off the nuke when you did is an extraordinarily dumb thing to do and extraordinarily clearly against every plausible set of rules: general, RP and AI. This would have gone with a warning without a prior ahelp where you had incredible difficulty understanding that chasing someone with a phaser does not constitute self-defense. These facts combined are why you have to take a single day off playing and go do something else.

Plenty of people recently have been given short breaks, trust me. You are not the only one.

You've still yet to explain "why" it's dumb or "why" it's against the rules. Literally nobody and nothing was affected by it. It changed absolutely nothing, hurt no one, although I feel like I'm just repeating the facts and you're ignoring them. Was it grief? Let's say yes, but then who was I griefing? You need an actual victim for grief to be the case, you can't grief lifeless code. There's literally not a soul that was affected by what I had done in any way. In the unlikely scenario that someone was trying to escape in some corner but didn't manage to do so in 6 minutes, it doesn't matter that they didn't, because for the purposes of anything that matters they are dead if they don't make it to CentComm anyways.

That time you're talking about I admitted I was somewhat overzealous, (not sure how it's relevant to this case) it'd have made more sense if you banned me then considering I actually shot a guy during a round but this is just utterly incomprehensible to me. It feels more like you wanted to ban me the last time so you were just looking for an excuse. In either case 1 day is not a big deal but I'm sure you understand it's about principle more than anything.

[Leeanei]

Since you haven't read the rules, I suppose, I'll have to explain which ones you broke. Rule 1, do not grief. Clearly, destroying the station would take more than ten minutes to fix and we have always held it that if you blow something up and don't know people are around, it is still a rule break. Considering there were dazed and confused crew wandering the station even in those last few seconds. We have never once held that the crew left on station are 'fair game' despite your insistence. Next up, RP rules 2, 5 and 11, all violated by setting off a nuke. Lastly the AI law to not harm humans was pretty clearly violated.

I don't really see more good coming of this complaint, it was discussed with the team and they are in agreement that the ban was proper.

[Frank_Stein]

Is this about the perceived lack of responsiveness on 3 and 4, or more about that you received a ban?

Cause it seems likely that if you did get a ban, it was probably in response to someone else's ahelp?

Either way, sure we can try to be more active on 3 and 4

[SirDavosSeaworth]

Since you haven't read the rules, I suppose, I'll have to explain which ones you broke. Rule 1, do not grief. Clearly, destroying the station would take more than ten minutes to fix

Next up, RP rules 2, 5 and 11, all violated by setting off a nuke.

More than ten minutes to fix.. seconds before round end when the shuttle is about to dock at CentComm. Okay, you're not even trying, you're just trolling me at this point.

Rule 2 - not broken. Didn't go out of my way to end the round for anybody, round was inevitably ending in seconds regardless, crew voted not to recall shuttle beforehand.

Rule 5 - not broken. It was roleplayed just fine, if you actually reviewed the situation properly you would know. There's literally a self-destruct system pre-installed on Horizon. For this exact purpose.

Rule 11 - it.. is security's job to antagonists? What does this even have to do with the situation? I didn't even see who the antagonists were that round.

You're just being willfully ignorant of the fact that this happened when the round was inevitably ending in seconds and are trying to paint it like I nuked the station 10 minutes in. 

"Is this about the perceived lack of responsiveness on 3 and 4, or more about that you received a ban?"

The combination of getting banned for victimless crimes by a clearly biased admin when real trolls have been running amok for a while. I wouldn't care enough to post if it was just one or the other. Either way evidently no logic or argument will make you change your mind on how ridiculous this all is, I can only hope that when you've had some time to think about it in a few days you'll realize with the power of hindsight how ludicrous this ban reasoning was especially under these circumstances.

[Mrfishstick]

Just to clarify since there seems to be a misunderstanding as to how server moderation works, you don’t get to pick and choose which rules you decide you have broken. You have multiple admins now informing you of the rules you have broken and exactly the manner in which you have. You’re welcome to disagree with that but it’s going to have no impact whatsoever as to your ability to play on Goonstation servers.

The admin feedback forum doesn’t exist to litigate the validly of a ban unless you feel the ban was a gross breech of admin conduct and I am not seeing any example of that standard being met here.