[CLOSED PR] SoS now gives one respawn

[github_bot]

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About the PR
Adds an extra life variable, changes shield of souls to give you one life.
Added a delay to the gib and qdel to fix nulls.

Why's this needed?
Infinite respawns are proving to be a problem.

Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Flappybat
(*)Shield of Souls (azone loot) now gives a single respawn.

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[mralexs]

Not a fan of this. 1 Respawn isn't worth going through all the trouble of lavaland, plus its quite easy to immediately be re-killed when using SoS. Perhaps there could be a cooldown between respawns?

[Chayot]

I'd think it just fine if they had 10 spawns or so, enough for them to feel their mortality creeping in. Becoming more distressing as they reach the counter down to 0.
That could be fun and allow them to feel immortal, at least for a good amount of time.

As it is, Yeah, There's been a bit of grief with infinite spawns.
One player in particular actively attempting to find any excuse to start a confrontation with sec, then beat them to death after draining their stun-weaponry.
Any attempts to stun, cuff or tranq them being nullified by killing themselves, of course.

[AlyasGrey]

Had at least three antag rounds shut down via this mechanic despite winning the initial fight each time, two of them involving micros/macros.

I'm in favor of any solution that doesn't straight up require me to metagame countering this every time I encounter certain people more than 20 minutes into a round.

[Ikea]

Prefer 6952 to this, still keeps the gimmick yet no longer makes it stupidly strong. One free respawn would still be a very powerful item

[mralexs]

Had at least three antag rounds shut down via this mechanic despite winning the initial fight each time, two of them involving micros/macros.

I'm in favor of any solution that doesn't straight up require me to metagame countering this every time I encounter certain people more than 20 minutes into a round.

Maybe Macro's/Micro's should nullify SoS. If you're gonna go out with a bang you don't get to respawn

[KikiMofo]

Years ago before I even knew what SoS was I got a changeling round and tried to spit and sting eat this one guy. I had got him and dragged him away to start the sucking but then he suicided and respawned right on me. I didn't know what was going on so I kept trying to eat them and it was very frustrating. After I understood how hard it was to get SoS and how few people knew how to get it and those that get it generally don't use it for mischief I was fine with it. Seems now its more common knowledge we got shitters using it for ill purposes. Probably deserves the nerf but Id say they should be able to respawn more than once.

[Ikea]

Link to alternate nerf pr:https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/6952. That pr reduces your max health by 90 and has you be stunned for ten seconds upon respawning, meaning its quite bad for combat now. Currently SoS is very good for getting out of stuns, you can kill yourself and now youre back at full health with 0 stuns.

[Deadvickyart]

Would nerfing it to a random amount of revives, like 1d6, curtail the worst abuses while keeping the item cool and powerful? You'd still be able to do all the tricks and get 3 or 4 lives, but every time you succumb you're risking permanantly dying and besides knowing the first one's guaranteed you never know when your SoS will decide not to revive you.

Zip guns had a similar problem years ago when they were loaded with explosive shotgun ammo. They had a random fail chance added, and they were fine afterwards. You can still reliably shoot a couple shells and have fun, but you can't spam massive amounts of them without a rapidly increasing chance of losing all your limbs.

[DioChasek]

The pr ikea linked to seems like the better solution. It keeps the spirit of the sos in play and discourages its use as a grief tool. The only thing I would add to it is micro and macros override it because with a little planning ahead you could stash 3 to 4 micros in stashs around the the station, get 4 different suicide bombs in turning the station into swiss cheese, and mop up any remaining opposition after, or a macro attack in a key crowded area and then do the same at your leisure. Throw in a couple suicide vests or pipe bombs and its a world of hurt.

[Retrino]

honestly lavamoon is one of the more trivial azones to complete, for an item that acts as an infinite respawn. sos often gets used to just make a mess of shit via the blood/organs/whatever the hell, genuinely have not seen it used in a way other than being a nuisance

[Chayot]

>genuinely have not seen it used in a way other than being a nuisance
I attest to this.

And so, perhaps it's more of a matter meant for by-player discipline, in a similar manner a player might be spoken to against looting the Captain's spare or Armory.
Of course, Nether of those two would allow infinite respawns. Grief with "sos" is extremely rare and seems to be isolated to one or two players. And very recent.

I suppose the question shouldn't have been "How much we should nerf it?", but rather, "Should we?" To which I personally would recommend: No.
It hasn't been a problem, and allowing one or two players to ruin something that has long been there providing fun to the crew is not something we should allow.
Unless admin design/development direction wishes it, Punish the players and let's move on as best as we can.

I apologize for my shifting stance on the matter, however I see now, I did not consider it as thoroughly as I should've.

[Cal]

I was on 2 and a vampire captain that rogued the ai and went to get sos used it against me. i promptly spaced them and let them painfully die over and over in starlight.

a more seasoned player would have had the station on its knees. easily.

just because -you- haven't seen something be an issue, doesn't mean it's not. I don't say that at any particular person, just in general.

[Chayot]

I'd hate to take something from the crew that has long been used for fun, as opposed to power-gaming.
I wouldn't be adverse to it, as the necessity may become apparent. Fighting power-gaming antags who take it would be terrible.

Outside of asking certain players to not grab it, which I don't think is the direction the devs wants to take, of course we'd have to nerf or remove it altogether.

----
I'm quite conflicted on it overall; I resign my opinion on the matter.
I'm certain what's best is what will be done, in the end.

[Katzen]

honestly lavamoon is one of the more trivial azones to complete, for an item that acts as an infinite respawn. sos often gets used to just make a mess of shit via the blood/organs/whatever the hell, genuinely have not seen it used in a way other than being a nuisance

This part has at least mostly been resolved with a bible change. Bible farting is fatal now with SoS.