Critical Condition Crawling

[Oremir]

Sounds like a pretty good idea to me although like some people said i'm not sure how i feel about not being able to use items entirely.
Don't know if it's possible to restrict items in these states but if it isn't an alternative could be that during Medium Crit you suffer intermittent stuns that drop your items, it'd make it more difficult to reliably use items that arn't instant use.

I don't know, i don't have a good awnser to that either but i think some suggestions some other people've made are good aswell.

[KikiMofo]

I mean Id prefer crawling over nothing. Simple as that

[Mouse]

This isn't suggesting crawling over nothing, though.  This is suggesting crawling where you're currently able to move and take actions.

[KikiMofo]

Is it? Because what Flab is suggesting is, "I've had this idea for a while and I think it's good. There should be an in-between stage in crit, between the lowcrit where you can walk around and do everything, and the deepcrit where you're unable to do anything at all and are basically dying."
I took that to mean its not replacing anything. Its just adding a new stage between low and deep crit

[Mouse]

I'm going off the numbers given, -100% is a good way from deep crit.

[cyberTripping]

They did say the numbers were up for tweaking, to be fair. That being said, I also have some doubts that this would be meaningfully engaging. I feel like it's definitely something that sounds nice in theory but in practice would require a ton of fucking with how the lying down state works and interacts with other parts of the game to be any fun.

[phyvo]

Initially I liked this idea but as I am thinking more about it I'm kind of skeptical. As I understand it crit has two main functions: one, give the person in crit a timer on how long they can do things before seeking medical attention themselves. Two, to give medical staff time to reach and treat said person before they die and have to be cloned. As described this "middle" crit stage does not give the wounded player much agency, so it leans heavily towards just being another form of deep crit. Crawling on the ground is not *that* different from falling over and over as you try to make your way to medbay.

So I am not sure what this adds that cannot be dealt with with some simpler combination of the following:

• Reducing RNG so that crit is more predictable for all players.
  
• Continuing to change crit threshholds.
  
• More liberal use of debuffs like weakened, slower movement speed, or drop-item emotes like "you cough up some blood!" at the middle stage of crit to make it more debilitating without having to code a new crawl state.
  
• I looked in the code but it appears that being weakened does not appear to do anything to attack damage in melee. That could be a good thing to add in terms of zombie people in crit being a threat to others. If you're starting to have a heart attack it's conceivable that you can shoot someone dead with a gun, maybe with reduced accuracy, but you're definitely not going to win a fist fight.
  
  

Kind of in general I think the goal of crit should be:

• First, establish a point where you *will* need to seek medical attention eventually or you will die. This is low crit. You can keep your abilities more or less but you are on the clock.
  
• Second, establish a point where the player might handicapped in general (the simple movement debuff from being wounded), but their ability to attack others and do difficult tasks (like healing oneself) is more greatly impeded. This is to encourage retreat. Item-drop emotes, weaker melee attacks, and reduced gun accuracy could come into play. The winning player in a fight is saved from the zombie-esque attack threat but still wants to finish off the opponent to avoid complications like the wounded player getting healed. Players would know that they are close to shifting into deep crit when they start actually falling down every 4 seconds.
  
• Thirdly, there's the point where you're down and need the assistance of other players to not die.
  
• Also, crit should be pretty predictable for the sake of all players. Exact time of death can vary but there should be less RNG in terms of what procs in each stage of crit and how often, and there should be a predictable amount of time that it takes to go from low to deep crit without medical attention.
  

I dunno, these are just my thoughts. I think it's important to consider exactly what behavior we want to be encouraging in players when they're in crit and try not to spend more time than necessary with players lurching around slowly with little to no agency. SS13 is not a simple health system FPS shooter but it's still a game.

[Frank_Stein]

I was thinking about this and here's what I think might work.

While standing and walking/running/sprinting in crit, you stand a greater chance of making your wounds worse, passing out, having a heart attack, and other bad life ending status effects happen to you when standing, moving, and performing actions.

While lying down and crawling, you're more stable and will breath better, bleed less, and generally live longer.

You could crawl to safety and lie down waiting for help, getting up only when necessary, you could try a mad dash and hope your heart doesn't give out before you get to medbay and/or kill the guy that killed you.

---

• Second, establish a point where the player might handicapped in general (the simple movement debuff from being wounded), but their ability to attack others and do difficult tasks (like healing oneself) is more greatly impeded. This is to encourage retreat. Item-drop emotes, weaker melee attacks, and reduced gun accuracy could come into play.
  

Yeah I think firmly establishing that in a fight between two people, the person who isn't in crit should firmly have the advantage.

Some other things that might work is having any melee attacks landed on a standing crit player knock them back down into prone.

[onetoughcreampuff]

I was thinking about this and here's what I think might work.

While standing and walking/running/sprinting in crit, you stand a greater chance of making your wounds worse, passing out, having a heart attack, and other bad life ending status effects happen to you when standing, moving, and performing actions.

While lying down and crawling, you're more stable and will breath better, bleed less, and generally live longer.

You could crawl to safety and lie down waiting for help, getting up only when necessary, you could try a mad dash and hope your heart doesn't give out before you get to medbay and/or kill the guy that killed you.

I like that idea a lot actually, it would help a lot with people rushing into medbay grabbing a medkit, and doing the docs job, all while they are sitting there, while still not stopping people from doing first aid if no ones in medbay. Furthermore it allows you to fight back if you need to and deal with the medical problem later, but with the risk of having a heart attack mid fight.

[RGBDeadSilent]

[*] Second, establish a point where the player might handicapped in general (the simple movement debuff from being wounded), but their ability to attack others and do difficult tasks (like healing oneself) is more greatly impeded. This is to encourage retreat. Item-drop emotes, weaker melee attacks, and reduced gun accuracy could come into play. The winning player in a fight is saved from the zombie-esque attack threat but still wants to finish off the opponent to avoid complications like the wounded player getting healed. Players would know that they are close to shifting into deep crit when they start actually falling down every 4 seconds.

I made a suggestion previously, on the last crit thread, that while in low crit you have reduced stamina regeneration. Means you could theoretically run away from them, or even continue to fight back, but the stamina you had when you hit that crit is all you have left. If you go down, you likely won't get back up because reduced stamina, but you'd likely be in crit and dying anyways.

I think the whole thing I suggested was, You hit crit, you have an adrenaline rush. While it lasts, you have your standard stamina regeneration, and when it expires, you go down to 25% of your normal stamina regen. Gives you time to either fight back, or run away. But once thats over with, you likely can't keep up anymore. Your own attacks might put you into stamina knockdown.