Breaking out of pins is ridiculously difficult, and needs a tweak.

[Carbadox]

Vampire is a hit and run antag. You're not supposed to drain a single person in one go like a changling.

[GORE]

Kneejerk reaction thread.

[THISISANICEGAME]

If you are choking someone they have 0 chance to escape it, they get on stamina crit and you can even move them around + you also get one free hand to beat them with, along with the oxygen damage they receive, it is about as easy to pull off as a pin but non antags will more often use pins since those do no damage. Pins are fine as is, escaping them, after it is done, should just require less luck.

[GORE]

If you are choking someone they have 0 chance to escape it, they get on stamina crit and you can even move them around + you also get one free hand to beat them with, along with the oxygen damage they receive, it is about as easy to pull off as a pin but non antags will more often use pins since those do no damage. Pins are fine as is, escaping them, after it is done, should just require less luck.

Then pins are going to be replaced by punching someone to death again.

If I pin somebody and they can easily get back up I will just murder them or beat them into crit, transport them and then heal them back up again. Seems less risky in case such a nerf goes through.

[Cal]

Kneejerk reaction thread.

Please contribute.

Then pins are going to be replaced by punching someone to death again.

If I pin somebody and they can easily get back up I will just murder them or beat them into crit, transport them and then heal them back up again. Seems less risky in case such a nerf goes through.

I'm very confused as to the situation where you would: Pin someone, not have cuffs or a Security officer on-hand to help, and decide to beat someone into crit, then heal them at Medbay? RP maybe?


Anyway, My current preferred tweaks for pin are as follows: Two hands needed to pin (vamps can still drain, lings can still suck) or perhaps resisting makes it stack and have a higher chance to break out each time.

[Technature]

Just because you don't like someone Pointing out something is a Kneejerk reaction doesn't mean it isn't a contribution to discussion.

[Cal]

Just because you don't like someone Pointing out something is a Kneejerk reaction doesn't mean it isn't a contribution to discussion.

It isn't, but don't get off-topic here, please.

[GORE]

Kneejerk reaction thread.

Please contribute.

Then pins are going to be replaced by punching someone to death again.

If I pin somebody and they can easily get back up I will just murder them or beat them into crit, transport them and then heal them back up again. Seems less risky in case such a nerf goes through.

I'm very confused as to the situation where you would: Pin someone, not have cuffs or a Security officer on-hand to help, and decide to beat someone into crit, then heal them at Medbay? RP maybe?


Anyway, My current preferred tweaks for pin are as follows: Two hands needed to pin (vamps can still drain, lings can still suck) or perhaps resisting makes it stack and have a higher chance to break out each time.

Personally I still see a good few reasons to keep one hand free.
For one - to feed people disgusting Discount Dan's food as a traitor chef or whatever.
Or to make sure the Captain can be forced to smoke some good ganja from botany after enacting a no drugs law.

Of course there is always potential to fight, spread demise and cause chaos.
Chaos is the game...and by far pinning someone and beating them will always be less efficient than just using some death-chem mixes.

Pinning and beating is fine.

Stripping away options for non-lethal and lethal engagements will just lead to more incentive to just go death-chem all the time.

I like the current system. That is my opinion on that.

Also - as an addendum...you think there are always security officers around or even reacting to a situation? Reacting when calling them? Reacting when using the emergency alert PDA program?

Perhaps during the peak player counts on a usual day that rings true...but I live in Europe and half the time I play on this server with probably one or two security officers, a detective if the round is especially funky...and a whole lot of players that are still learning the game.
It's not their fault they might handle situations badly or lack the speed to react to something in a hurry.
Still...exactly for that reason pinning is great. Exactly for that reason I am against the proposed changes here.

That is my take on it.

Is that constructive enough?

[Cal]

Is that constructive enough?

Yeah.

Personally I still see a good few reasons to keep one hand free.
For one - to feed people disgusting Discount Dan's food as a traitor chef or whatever.
Or to make sure the Captain can be forced to smoke some good ganja from botany after enacting a no drugs law.

Didn't consider the usefulness of using pin to do evil nonlethal deeds, since when it's been used on me I've pretty much just been killed.


I suppose one handed pinning is fine, though I am now at a loss for a proper suggestion as to balance this.

Also - Not everyone in this game is using death chem mixes and dumping them in people's faces. Not even on main. It sucks that it happens, I guess, but you can't balance everything around tossing hellacid in people's faces.

[Froggit_Dogget]

I'm very confused as to the situation where you would: Pin someone, not have cuffs or a Security officer on-hand to help, and decide to beat someone into crit, then heal them at Medbay? RP maybe?

Ive dealt with tons of shitters by pinning them and talking to them to get them to stop being asshats. If they can escape really fast then theres no point to the pin and to stop shitters youll have to murder them.

[Frank_Stein]

Here's an idea: what if either one or both hands could be used? One hand, you can wail on them but it's easier to break out of. Both hands and it's real hard to break out of, but obviously you can't do much either.

I think you could do something like that where, if the person is in a two handed pin they could resist at stamina cost to force a one handed grab, then resist again to knock the person off of them.

The person maintaining the pin could advance it again to keep them still. Depending on how much stamina is needed, you could have them need to wait again for it to rebuild to try again just slightly longer than it takes to reestablish the two handed pin

Thinking about it more, you could apply this to grabs. A lower level grab that doesn't cut off their oxygen but holds them firmly could work as the one handed and the aggressive lethal grab as two handed and harder to escape. Make them all a kind of progression thing for revisiting, where you go back down to the previous level

[KikiMofo]

Lethal grab is one handed so you can choke out two fuckers at once.

[Frank_Stein]

Just because you don't like someone Pointing out something is a Kneejerk reaction doesn't mean it isn't a contribution to discussion.

For what it's worth, I don't think kneejerk threads are bad whatsoever. They might be reactionary, but sometimes you just notice something for the first time. Either way productive ideas could come about from the rest of the community thinking about it. The more people voice an opinion, the easier is to extrapolate what the general consensus is, learn something, or get a unique prospective from people who wouldn't necessarily given it if the topic hadn't come up|

"A broken clock is right twice a day."

---

Lethal grab is one handed so you can choke out two fuckers at once.

Good point. Would make for a clear bonus to having something like hulk, or some other superior strength trait

[Froggit_Dogget]

imo pins arent even strong enough. When the pin breaks, wether that being them breaking it, you dropping it, or someone else coming and dragging you away from the other person, the other person pops up an entire second sooner. Sometimes pins are broken way too fast, too, putting you at a disadvantage.

[UrsulaMejor]

Pinning using both hands would be cool, considering someone can beat you with their off-hand for some reason and just kill you.

this is actually super "realistic" and kinda cool tbh

using your other hand to fight with uses stamina and makes it easier to break out of the pin