[CLOSED PR] Removes the cyalumes saber ability to deflect projectiles

[github_bot]

PULL REQUEST DETAILS




About the PR
Removes the cyalumes saber ability to deflect projectiles


Why's this needed?
The current version of the deflect ability is as such -

Only prerequisite is to be holding a c-saber, no special (Sith/Jedi) clothing required
100% chance of deflect from every direction, even behind
No required timing, only need to toggle blocking by pressing Z
No stamina drain on a successful block

None of the above points are balanced in any way, and this is all top of an already strong item.

To me, this feature only makes sense to be tied to the Cyalume Knight thats in the code. Otherwise I see no reason for this to just be readily available to anyone holding it.

Changelog

Code:

changelog
(u)Carbadox
(*)Removed the cyalumes saber ability to deflect projectiles

PULL REQUEST DETAILS

[penny]

Nerf the feature itself if you like but I'm not into removing it

Maybe address your own critique, require special clothes and timing and whatnot, drain some stamina.

[virvatuli]

Straight up removal basically takes any flavour whatsoever out of the weapon, at that point it'd just be a baseball bat skin (oh wait, the baseball bat *has* a unique function) that has a tiny chance to delimb. Reworking the functionality is a far better idea if you think something isn't balanced rather than making the item boring.

[pali6]

Yeah at that point remove the item entirely if you're removing its only unique feature.

[THISISANICEGAME]

This would make the c saber basically useless, I think an animation for blocking with it would be enough to nerf it, so I can know when my shots will bounce back to me and when I will acctually hit them.

[Frank_Stein]

How about it only reflects projectiles for a few seconds after blocking? You can unblock and reblock to reset it, but you're still going to have windows of time where you're vulnerable

[Carbadox]

I've said it on the discord but at this point I can tell this argument will have no point because there's no chance of this going through.

The deflect ability was a needless buff from the start. People have been complaining about it being unbalanced for ages. If you want to improve rather than remove then just do it. There's been a million ways stating how to fix it but no one has done anything about it. Relaying those suggestions to me does nothing. Im doing the closest thing to my ability of doing something about something I dislike.

The csaber puts you into -100 health in 3 hits, thats 200 damage. Thats enough to make the weapons distinct. Nothing more is needed, its overkill

[Gerhazo]

I've said it on the discord but at this point I can tell this argument will have no point because there's no chance of this going through.

The deflect ability was a needless buff from the start. People have been complaining about it being unbalanced for ages. If you want to improve rather than remove then just do it. There's been a million ways stating how to fix it but no one has done anything about it. Relaying those suggestions to me does nothing. Im doing the closest thing to my ability of doing something about something I dislike.

For context, the deflect ability was added as compensation for its extremely powerful stunning properties being removed, where it would deal ~150 stamina damage per hit. It wasn't a buff on its own, moreso a slight overhaul/rework.

Don't have any say on balancing itself as I haven't been on recently or keeping up.

[RichardGere]

I've said it on the discord but at this point I can tell this argument will have no point because there's no chance of this going through.

The deflect ability was a needless buff from the start. People have been complaining about it being unbalanced for ages. If you want to improve rather than remove then just do it. There's been a million ways stating how to fix it but no one has done anything about it. Relaying those suggestions to me does nothing. Im doing the closest thing to my ability of doing something about something I dislike.

The csaber puts you into -100 health in 3 hits, thats 200 damage. Thats enough to make the weapons distinct. Nothing more is needed, its overkill

It also has a stamina cost of 40, making it virtually guaranteed to be disarmed after 3 hits, either by the person being hit or by someone nearby

[Carbadox]

Which can easily be fixed by taking meth, epipherine or any other stim that increased your stamina regen

[Mouse]

Straight up removal basically takes any flavour whatsoever out of the weapon, at that point it'd just be a baseball bat skin (oh wait, the baseball bat *has* a unique function) that has a tiny chance to delimb. Reworking the functionality is a far better idea if you think something isn't balanced rather than making the item boring.

There's still the absolute gigantic amount of BLEED it does, and there appears to be blood loss on hit independent of the blood loss from the bleeding as well, at least the last time I tested it.


If you want my take on the whole thing tying the reflection into the c-saber's special attack might work. Makes it a bit more interactive and possibly a bit more intuitive, since the special certainly looks like something that'd reflect. Alternately there ought to be a way to tell when someone with a c-saber is blocking because right now there's only the brief "BLOCK" image that appears when the block is started.

[Leeanei]

i think the real question that needs addressing here isn't so much the csaber but if people on Main are still okay with rampaging and if rampages are the issue more than a given item. When the csaber goes it'll probably get replaced with the katana again, then people will remember how nasty the teleport+disorient into delimb is.

as an RP player I have basically no skin in the game but I see this discussion no matter which rampage item is at the top of the list. So, again, to me the issue people want to address is rampaging. It sounds like a community discussion on rampaging needs to happen rather than the endless cycle of changing ways to murder the crew.

[Frank_Stein]

Straight up removal basically takes any flavour whatsoever out of the weapon, at that point it'd just be a baseball bat skin (oh wait, the baseball bat *has* a unique function) that has a tiny chance to delimb. Reworking the functionality is a far better idea if you think something isn't balanced rather than making the item boring.

There's still the absolute gigantic amount of BLEED it does, and there appears to be blood loss on hit independent of the blood loss from the bleeding as well, at least the last time I tested it.

You know, presumably they are being cut with a hot blade, I think removing bleed would make sense if the wounds are being cauterized.

I'd be in favor of retaining the reflect ability but weakening the offensive strength further.

I personally see it as C-Saber Katana Red Chainsaw on a scale of Stealthy to Offensive.

Considering that the C-Saber is also concealable in pockets, we can push it further into being the stealthy, defensive option over the scary murder weapon option.

[mbc]

hello i made the deflect ability and i come with Suggestions to make it a bit worse (pick any, possibly all 3)

- make blocking csaber users vulnerable to point-blank shots
- randomize the deflection of the bullet, could make it go to the sides instead of back towards the shooter
- use the movement 'restrain' feature to lock the saber wielder in place for about a half second (maybe too long?) when they successfully reflect a bullet

generally the idea here is to open up an approach strategy for people with a gun + ammo, while maintaining the Core idea that the saber is a weapon that tends to force close engagements


edit :
i would like to avoid mechanics that depend on tight timing windows because of the game's variable + mostly poor response time (see : matrix flopout being a useless trait)
i think better visuals to indicate when someone is blocking would be great in general.

[KikiMofo]

Remove bleed but add burning?