[PR] Gives the Head of Security an anti-mindslave health implant

[github_bot]

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[balance][input wanted]
About the PR

This PR gives the HoS a variant of the sec implant that prevents them from being mindslaved while it is inside them. (job code doesn't support multiple starting implants)

As of yet this doesn't affect mindslave cloners yet, I'm not sure what the nicest way of going about that is. Mindslave cloners are pretty rare and much more involved than a hit-and-run with an implanter, so maybe HoS is fair game for someone putting in that amount of effort.

Why's this needed?

Not having HoS rights I can't speak from experience, but the main server(s) apparently have the issue that HoSses burn out on the role after a while. One of the stated reasons is frequent mindslaving, sometimes several rounds in succession. Someone suggested this a day or two ago on discord and I thought it'd be a nice way to help alleviate the problem.

This PR is intended to provoke discussion. I figure this might be a controversial change.

Changelog

Code:

(u)BatElite:
(*)The Head of Security's health implant now prevents mindslaving while it is inside them. Traitors will have to put in some effort to get one on their side.

Let me know if that changelog is a bit much, I wanted to have fun with this one. :P


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[Adhara In Space]

one idea that was discussed in adminchat was to have the head of security start with a "loyalty implant" that needed to be cut out before the head of security could be mindslaved. i think thats a good idea, because it makes taking over the hos a bit more involved than just "click once" and makes it so that theyre also not totally immune

[Carbadox]

I was gonna say what Adhara said, I will add that while I think its a good idea but Im not sure whether its neccesary. Obviously, this would all depend on implementation but having mindslaves work across the board on everyone makes it a pretty easy item to understand and use. It also makes for an interesting dynamic where even the most trusted person on station can't neccesarily be always trusted.

I dont think making HoS a more impenretable fortress would be great but also no real issues come to mind

Edit : I'm generally indifferent to the idea of HoS being open to mind slaving, I've only had it happen to me once or twice, so just in case it came off that I have some bias, one way or another

[data_err0r]

I find the HoS being mindslaved an interesting dynamic and would prefer it's still a thing, but I'm also not a HoS and don't know how it feels from that side.

I quite like Adhara's idea where it's still possible. It would lead to quite the surprise once people get used to it rarely happening when someone finally manages to do it.

[Kapu1178]

i made bruce never play HoS over NTSO because he always gets mindslaved.

Until adhara's mentioned suggestion is a thing, I think this should be a short term fix.

[Mysticmidgit]

Kapu (Walks Silverscale) has cursed me to always be mindslaved as HoS and has forever made me not trust him as captain. While I can understand why people would be against this idea I think it's needed for the job that can literally have the whole armory stuffed into one gun have some kind of defense against mindslaves

[GORE]

For a role that can have literally the whole armory stuffed into a gun - which is a pretty powerful tool. A mindslave is a great way to negate that dangerous tool from being used on you.

Hard no to this change from me.

Mindslaves are a pretty costly investment and that is worth their effect. Total immunity to a traitor item like that? Nah.
Also - getting the HoS with their armor and advanced tool - knocked out, dragged to a secure location - then operated on and then implanted with the mindslave; will get you called out probably in most cases.

[BatElite]

one idea that was discussed in adminchat was to have the head of security start with a "loyalty implant" that needed to be cut out before the head of security could be mindslaved. i think thats a good idea, because it makes taking over the hos a bit more involved than just "click once" and makes it so that theyre also not totally immune

I'm guessing that you're thinking of an implant seperate from the loyaties of revs? Although having those do something outside of that gamemode would be cool, I'm guessing if they were available at all the more delicious interesting targets for mindslaving would just grab one as part of their standard round gear.

I'm not so much concerned about balance stuff like the armory (printing lawbringers is apparently much better for rampages) but about people quitting HoS. Dimwhat said on discord yesterday that mindslaving wasn't really a problem in that regard but rather the way people treat HoSses in general. If that's a common sentiment this PR doesn't do what I'd hoped it would.

Also for what it's worth, the HoS is also meant to be an example to sec and they can't really do that if they get told to murder everyone a lot. If you need to ling a HoS to mindslave them that might be nice balance for the role.
(I think people don't use mindlaves to their fullest potential generally, Having your own little mob is pretty dangeous.)

[BatElite]

Implemented Adhara's implant idea by folding it into a variant of the sec health implant (so I don't have to refactor job code to make multiple implants per job possible). I'm assuming that it's as palateable and idea to people in favour and more palateable to people (previously) against. If not somehow, then I can just learn to undo a commit. Probably an interesting bonus for traitors is that mindslaving the HoS now also cuts out health/death alerts toward sec.

Maybe one of the admins could rename this thread to more accurately reflect current behaviour?

[Superlagg]

How about that they get loyalty implants, but instead of making them immune to mindslaves, it just makes mindslaves not give them antag status. So they have to do that the master says, but they can't do any badguy things. Or kill themselves.

[Drago156]

So as seemingly one of the few long term HoSes remaining, I have NEVER had an issue with mindslaving as HoS. I think all in all I've had it attempted less than 10 times, at least half of which I just tased them or knocked the implanter out of their hand. People really aren't that discreet with mindslaves, so not being ready on the trigger I think is partially on the HoS. I also personally would LOVE to be mindslaved more often than I am, due to the HoS being such a powerful but underused asset, to both the crew and antags. Getting a lack of antag for an extended period of time is also incredibly annoying after a while.

So hard no on the change, but here's a counter suggestion: instead of making the HoS immune, how about having NT make an announcement every time a Head of Staff is mindslaved, so the crew knows that someone with decent access and power isn't what they seem but it also keeps the mystery of who it is that's mindslaved.

As for HoS burnout, so many people overlook what many HoSes themselves say, especially when conversing with another HoS. As Dimwhat said, a lot of it is with how HoSes are treated. I can't count the number of times I've been called shitsec, asked if I'm security, or otherwise had to put people down for being shitters repeatedly. This coupled with the fact that main rounds at highpop are chaotic, and shittery is rampant in just about every round in some manner. Both of these things make playing HoS a very stressful role, and takes a major mental toll on all of us, or at least the HoSes on main.

[Leeanei]

There's still plenty of HoS players on RP, tbh. Treatment is better than main.

I think this is a good change just because of how easy and quick it is to mindslave a HoS and instantly remove them as a threat. I don't really play HoS to be Antag Deluxe. I play it to be a good example to new sec. Like many have said, I can't do that if I'm under orders to space and kill people!

[GORE]

There's still plenty of HoS players on RP, tbh. Treatment is better than main.

I think this is a good change just because of how easy and quick it is to mindslave a HoS and instantly remove them as a threat. I don't really play HoS to be Antag Deluxe. I play it to be a good example to new sec. Like many have said, I can't do that if I'm under orders to space and kill people!

Instantly remove that threat?

I think in past rounds of mine as Traitor I somehow managed to kill the HoS; who came back not even 5 minutes later as the NTSO.
Not sure if I remember that wrong, if an admin was involved in these shenanigans - but for me it seemed that even if you remove an HoS player they might get a new life with all their knowledge and great gear.

At least when you mindslave someone that second life would never be the case in that regard.
Do HoS really need a power-bosst? They got their pulse-mode. Push and suspicious people away. Do not stand in the middle of the hallway.

I am for keeping the mindslave as it is.
It costs TC - the Deluxe one half of your TC. That is pretty much a lot.

[aft2001]

Comparatively speaking, an emag costs the same as a deluxe mindslave implant but a deluxe mindslaved HoS is ***far*** better than an emag. Who needs to emag doors open when the HoS can just give you AA? Who needs to break open sec gear closets and crates when you can be given a token? A C-saber costs more and anyone would want a mindslaved HoS more than a C-Saber. Hell, even just 20 minutes of HoS mindslave from a regular implant can be argued to have more value than a c-saber.

Also, how can the HoS player fight back against this? What tools do they have? What counters are there to literally just pulling something out and instantly clicking on them? Yes a deluxe costs a lot, but it shouldn't be practically an instant win when you buy it and do something as simple as walking by the HoS and clicking on them.

The issue to me doesn't seem to be that it costs a lot, but that it's far too much bang for your buck for how trivial it is. Granted, total immunity to mindslaves definitely is worse, but 0 resistance to them is definitely not great. The HoS is deliberately never/extremely rarely an antag for a reason.

[Leeanei]

Gore, the core issue is the HoS needs to be difficult to mindslave because they have to be trustworthy. I have seen people scream at HoSes in OOC for ages because of actions done when mindslaved, and a mindslaved HoS can set an extremely bad example for brand new security!