TTV's (and other explosives) during gang rounds

[mralexs]

There is support for (re)banning TTV's and other explosives during gang rounds. Blowing up the station during a game mode designed to captured is counter-intuitive and very annoying as some have been using gang rounds to go on bombing sprees. I agree with this opinion, as mass bombings make gang even less fun to play.

[Boxta]

TBH gangs just need to be reworked. Something like the following
Each gang has 5 strikes. if they reach 5 strikes, their gang is disbanded, and everyone in the gang, including the leader looses their antag status
You gain a strike by not completeing a objective.
Since every gang has the same objective, the gangs will have to compete for X area, otherwise they risk loosing their antag status. Youd also gain a strike for your gang if you try and make a bomb
Kidnaping objectives wouldnt be included in this, but if you do one, your gang looses a strike. the only mandatory objectiove is the area capture ones

[Rodney Dick]

short term, I definitely support disabling toxins during gang rounds

most of the same effects can be achieved with chems but I assume it'd be more work to pare it down

more generally I think gang rounds _can_ be really fun but _usually_ are not

[RGBDeadSilent]

I've said it nearly every gang shift i've been in, Gangs is about turf. If you're destroying said turf, its counter-intuitive to gameplay. Stop destroying the station your gang wants to own.

Definitely no TTV's or Can-bombs on gangs.

[KikiMofo]

I thought the rule always has been gang members shouldn't be making TTVs and canbombs

[mralexs]

I thought the rule always has been gang members shouldn't be making TTVs and canbombs

Wiki page says gangs

• "May use bombs if there is a very good reason to do so and a general consensus is reached in the gang that it's a good idea."
  

It seems "very good reason" has been boiling down to "because I want to"

[BatElite]

I don't think there's much of a ligitimate reason for gangs to use TTVs, so not a problem with preventing them using them. I did have a fun time getting chembombed during a gang round as a way to get assassinated a couple days ago though.

As a practical question, how would we go about disabling toxins during gang rounds without making that a way for player to tell the round type early? Does it matter, since gangs tends to get called out within minutes of the round starting?

[SimianC]

As a practical question, how would we go about disabling toxins during gang rounds without making that a way for player to tell the round type early? Does it matter, since gangs tends to get called out within minutes of the round starting?

There was actually code in place that prevented gang members from assembling and detonating TTVs, back in November 2019.
It's worth mentioning that this change was reverted because it was deemed a knee-jerk reaction that didn't really fix much. Since TTVS were problematic in other game modes, it was decided that adjusting how explosions work (make them less likely to gib/delete items, having them require more time/effort, etc.) would be a better change in the long-term.

[GORE]

Is there not legitamate reason for gangs to desire to disable security long-term? Cause that is one of the things ttvs are good at.

[mralexs]

Is there not legitamate reason for gangs to desire to disable security long-term? Cause that is one of the things ttvs are good at.

The problem isn't using 1 bomb to disable sec, its people spamming them and blowing up large parts of the station

[Roomba]

The specific issue is a group of people who “just so happens” to gang up with each other every gang round, build TTVs by the metric ton, and bomb the station because they’re really not interested in gang as anything other than a “anyone can self-antag” mode.

And if you’re going to go “okay but that’s a problem with a specific person and scan be solved by admins taking a harder stance on them” then I invite you to look up a couple posts where the previous “let’s do a hotfix on this issue” band-aid was immediately done away with for a more ‘systemic’ solution which, shocker of shockers, didn’t do a damn thing and resulting in this thread cropping up once more with the exact same problem.

[Mouse]

Is there not legitamate reason for gangs to desire to disable security long-term? Cause that is one of the things ttvs are good at.

There are also legitimate reasons for gangs to desire to be able to breathe, which is something TTVs are excellent at stopping.

How about this instead? Every time a gang member destroys flooring or a wall their gang loses points. One point for the first tile destroyed, two for the second, three for the third, and so on and so forth. If this pushes them into the negatives, they have a period of 5-10 minutes to get it in the positives again, or the entire gang is gibbed by the Cabal/Council/whatever name it's going by that round. A global announcement saying who got blown up and why is optional.

Also, I still think gang members should be immediately identifiable by people outside the gang, so if you see a gang member go in toxins the AI can cut the power and then the entire crew can go beat them to death. IMO if we're going to have "Self-Antag: the Game Mode", everyone who chooses to become an antag should get a great big noticeable "I AM VALID" sign.

[aft2001]

How about make it so that you just don't get nearly as much influence from areas you control if they're blown to pieces? I'd imagine it might be computationally expensive, but if it's not, then perhaps every now and then check the 'quality' of a controlled area, and areas with lower quality would yield smaller amounts of gang points (I forget what they're called oh no). Here are a few basic factors:

1) Does the room have a breathable atmosphere? (this is probably gonna be a bit complicated so I won't go into it)
2) What % of the room has damaged or missing flooring and walls?
3) Is the area powered?
4) What % of the floor space has some mess on it? (e.g blood, vomit, gibs, ants, etc.)

Mathematically this would probably just return a coefficient between 0 and 1, with greater numbers meaning a higher quality room, and this would then be multiplied with however many points that area would normally give you. If it's perfectly clean, powered, intact, and breathable, then you get no penalties. If you're an ass and blow things up, you lose points.

Perhaps also have an overall station quality, where lower station quality inflicts penalties on ALL gangs, just to discourage bombing enemy territory to gimp them?

This wouldn't solve the issue, but due to the fact that blowing up areas of the station would make it so that YOU don't get as many fun toys from the lockers.

[Mouse]

Another idea that could work:  Instead of a gang uniform and a gang mask or hat, you get a gang uniform, a gang mask, and a gang hat.  They'd also be different items than the normal ones for their appearance, so instead of a SWAT mask you'd have a gang SWAT mask.  Joining a gang automatically equips them on you, and they cannot be removed or destroyed by acid.  None of the masks would function as internals.

Give them an incentive to not vent the station by making it so they can't survive the consequences of it easily.

[KikiMofo]

Is there not legitamate reason for gangs to desire to disable security long-term? Cause that is one of the things ttvs are good at.

The problem isn't using 1 bomb to disable sec, its people spamming them and blowing up large parts of the station

Gotta admit. As a long time spacestation bomber it's true, Once you make one bomb its hard to stop. Probably wouldnt just stop with Sec.