Let's talk about The Cool Zone

[vampirate]

It's come up and it's worth discussion the Discord cool zone.  In this OP I won't share my opinion on it but will later, but does anyone else find it a toxic place?   Or is it like, a rad safespace for you and don't think a thing should change?  What do people think about the cool zone. I know a few people who don't like it, and it's come up in another thread so...  what's yalls opinion on it?

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I added this anonymous poll thing. I dunno if it's reliable or not or can be like spammed for votes, but if you want to not reply and just click a button... this is a thing. Also if you want the questions to be worded differently, I am open to suggestions on wording. https://strawpoll.com/64j15erc1

[kyle2143]

I think you're missing the point of the cool zone, or at least the point as I understand it. It's basically a politics quarantine(though it wasn't originally supposed to be) to stop people shitting up general or so they can make posts like it's facebook. I don't really go there anymore cause I don't come to goonstation to talk politics, but the intent in my opinion is to give people a place to talk politics/corona/topical things without turning general into a shouting match over people who do and don't want to talk about it.

[vampirate]

I for my part found it a place where only militant left views were allowed, where empathizing with moderates or the right got you heat... and were basically not being in the extreme or agreeing with the popular and always far left opinion was frowned upon or shouted down. I am a person who tries to give people a ton of empathy, and benefit of the doubt and was accused of playing Devil's Advocate. But I am also a Bernie Bro and an LGBT person so I wasn't exactly a right winger in there either. I knew people who were afraid to talk in there because they knew they'd get dog piled. I saw regular calls for violence against people on the right and cops.... that's my experience of the channel.

It made me bleak, and it made me miserable, and I am a more happy person for not having access to it.

I know people objected to some of my views. By I tend to be skeptical always and try to give doubt when something seems to confirm perfectly my opinion or expectations. I am super wary of confirmation bias, and as a flaw I may overcompensate in that department. I'll own that. I tend to always be willing to question the popular opinion among my in group.

I know I also got a lot of misery cause I expressed not wanting to vote for Biden as someone who avidly supported Bernie.

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I may have been missing the point of the cool zone, yeah, but it seems like the point of the cool zone might have changed in practice to why it was established?

[UrsulaMejor]

The point of cool zone was to be a place to talk about the hard times we've all been going through without feeling guilty about bringing down the mood in general.

Naturally, a lot of these hard times are predicated on beliefs and views which are political in nature.

It is not, however, a place for political discussion. Political discussions often happen there, yes, but it is not for those discussions any more than general was. The people in there are seeking a place to talk about the fucked up corona world we live in, not political debate, devil's advocacy, etc.

When people are venting or experiencing grief, it is generally considered rude to try to bring skepticism or debate into their feelings. Determining whether or not a discussion is wanted or welcome is part of "reading the room", and knowing how to enter those situations tactfully is a skill that requires practice

[vampirate]

The point of cool zone was to be a place to talk about the hard times we've all been going through without feeling guilty about bringing down the mood in general.

Naturally, a lot of these hard times are predicated on beliefs and views which are political in nature.

It is not, however, a place for political discussion. Political discussions often happen there, yes, but it is not for those discussions any more than general was. The people in there are seeking a place to talk about the fucked up corona world we live in, not political debate, devil's advocacy, etc.

Would it be fair to say that purpose is poorly defined and poorly enforced then? Given how often "fuck deez right wingers" becomes the topic of the day, and also how frequently political discussions are held there? I thought the purpose of the cool zone was to have political discussions that they didn't want in general. It seems like many do. If I had known it was a place for catharsis (which again, if it is... it's really not going well in there) I might have avoided political discussion entirely.

[UrsulaMejor]

[vampirate]

But the place is almost about heavy ass political topics. If a moderate or conservative player in there expresses say... disliking the protests (which again, I am in support of) they get come down on like a ton of bricks. From what I saw in there, it's basically always a political discussion/debate going on. I dunno. If the purposed described in the pic is its purpose.... it's not going well... in my opinion anyway. I only ever felt shouted down for expressing something other than the popular left opinion, and I wasn't alone, but I am gonna shut up for a bit cause this thread shouldn't just be my opinion, if the discussion takes off at all.

[popecrunch]

The problem it was meant to solve was heavy discussions happening in general and making people who don't want to see those discussions unhappy. It's not 'for' politics specifically, it's 'for' heavy topics or depressing stuff. The fact that it isn't 'for' one topic or subset of topics is on purpose. The fact that it tends pretty hard to the left isn't by design, but it also doesn't appear to be a significant issue since you are the first and only person I have seen complaining about how it's too lefty for you. Note that I'm very much not saying you are the only complainer here, just that I haven't seen anyone else say they don't like it for this reason. I have less than zero interest in making, moderating, and policing a righty discussion space, but the beautiful thing about discord is you can set up a server for whatever you want as long as it's within Discord's terms of use. If you don't like it, don't go in there (and yes I know that is a very very easy decision for you to make for Reasons) - if you want a different space that suits your particular desires, you can either convince us to make and maintain it (good luck) or make your own.

[vampirate]

Well... I'm not righty, part of what got me yelled at was being too left to be willing to vote for Biden :p.   The screen cap I'll  repost from the admin who removed me is a good example of that problem.    If you shout down or remove people who so much as express a different point of view... you're gonna find people being wary of complaining.

Does it not at all seem familiar?  I dunno... it's a shame the town halls stopped cause people might have felt at liberty to still bring this stuff to light.   Maybe making town halls a thing semi-regular would be a good idea?



It seemed at least in town halls like... people were less hesitant to express themselves.  Which was good,  I thought the town halls were rad

[Sundance]

I've no dog in this fight and sure enough you can call me out on this if you like "Sundance, you don't even frequent Discord", to which my response would be "Then you know that i'm coming from a neutral perspective".

But from a cursory read of the #coolzone appears that it is framed from an incredibly narrow American lens, nevermind it being leftist. For the records, I'm also "left" but i'm Irish left and that just might mean something different to you, we just so happen to share the same social values... but reading through it i'm almost certain to disagree with various perspectives.

What the key issue it seems is what is deemed offensive. Again, this is taken from a narrow American lens. Out of curiosity, I typed in "Ireland" into #coolzone and one of the results was a fucking wojak meme equating American Republicanism to Irish Republicanism, the latter was wielding an Armalite AR-18, the choice gun of the IRA. Scrolling up, it really doesn't get much better.

As an Irish Republican, I found that comparison offensive and exceptionally tone deaf. That comparison is actually seen as a right wing dog-whistle here, but in fairness, how would you know? Sure enough, nobody called the person out because nobody quite understood why one would take offense to that.

On the other hand, should you make a comment that offends the masses (i.e: Within the American lens), even on the basis of ignorance, would I be correct in saying that you would be dogpiled? That's a genuine question.
Example would be the ACAB shit that keeps get thrown around, and I didn't need to look very far for this one. This again is taken from a narrow lens. Do I think the Police force in America is dysfunctional and failing in its civic duty? Yes. Do I think all cops, around the world, including the Gardaí in my country, are bastards? No.

I'm not sure the remedy for all of this. I think you need a more honest approach when it comes to moderating this chat. Being a devil's advocate isn't a bad thing if you're trying to foster discussion and if I am going to be critical of Vampirate here, there would seem to be an issue of him "not reading the room". If there's a rule of "be honest and truthful" about your opinions, that might save you all a lot of heartache. This would stop people being provocateurs and if someone has an ignorant perspective, one doesn't need to attack, but to educate in reasonable discussion.

[Chayot]

I don't go to coolzone b/c political views are often shifting and at times not entirely true due to rampant disinformation.
Since you have been removed from it, and feel that was positive, I'm glad for you.

As to whether it's "Toxic" or one-sided?
I would say such characteristics are not unique to Coolzone but anywhere where individuals allow such behavior to occur.

There is political discussion occurring, yes. However it is not purely political.
Often they are expressing themselves on happenings of the world and how it affects them personally.
To me, it fulfills the intended purpose as ursula brought out,
to "talk about hard times... a lot of these hard times are predicated on beliefs and views which are political in nature."
While also, almost entirely isolating political discussion from other channels. I can appreciate the lack of political discussion/debate.

Ultimately, you seem reasonable. However you take the other party too seriously at times. Some individuals don't have your best interests at heart. They want to make you upset because they're bored and it's funny. Difficult thought it may be, it's best to disengage from such insincere discussions.

[UrsulaMejor]

vampirate, are you aware of the larger context surrounding what you posted? No, you are not, as you were not there. Needless to say, it was not merely a difference in viewpoints, and I'll leave it at that. You have a very narrow and biased set of information surrounding that event and I think you should drop that point and stick to first hand experiences of yours and not hearsay.

[Adhara In Space]

idk. i dont rly care what way vampirate leans politically. but i keep seeing examples of things he has said that make me uncomfortable. and the coolzone isnt a place for you to put your searing hot takes really. just a place to talk about how much life sucks sometimes when you dont wanna bother other people with how much life sucks. if something you are saying is making people uncomfortable and youre asked to stop, please stop. thats it. i like to think that everyone would extend me that courtesy if i asked, because i know i would try to if someone else asked me to. sometimes coolzone is just used as "ha ha politics" chat and while that isnt really its purpose, as long as its not really harmful i dont know if i would ask the discussion to be stopped or moved.

[Leeanei]

I suggest if people don't like cool-zone or the subject matter puts them on edge, just ask for a self-ban.

My very personal take: cool-zone has/had way too much violent rhetoric and it made me very uncomfortable.

[warcrimes]

personally i'm glad that the cool zone is somewhere you feel uncomfortable sharing these kinds of nobody-fucking-asked-you takes, and the quality of the channel has increased dramatically in your absence. 

This is a perfect example of what you may or may not decry as "bashing non-leftist opinions" but what it actually is is just downright disrespectful and garbage discourse. You saunter into a discussion people (who have a stake in the matter) discussing what upsets them and what would make it right, and you swung in, cheeks flapping, with some condescending thats-just-how-the-world-works-kiddo bullshit. All this enlightened non-partisan "it was inevitable" garbage has a single purpose: it takes up space and eats up time that people could have spent much better without you near it. 

Nobody is asking for this, nobody is welcoming this. If you want your own safe place to reminesce about colonialism and the inherent might of the european warlord, kindly cram it. You decided to flout the purpose of the tough times channel to play armchair revisionist and arrogantly "explain" some textbook anglo curriculum "history" to people who were trying to discuss the morality and righteousness of the fact. You got burned for shitting up the conversation, not for being outside the "acceptable opinions" or whatever, you just sucked ass to talk to. 

You could've walked in with some Merriam-Webster definition of Borders or Land, or just gone off on a monologue about oranges, it doesn't matter. 

The channel isn't broken, this is pure operator error.