General Sec Token Chat - Replacement and Improvement Brainstorming Here!

[Erev]

So, the 'Expand Sec Token' thread sort of asked those wanting removal or readjustment to go elsewhere. I am personally not a fan of them as they are far too gamey and can make other actions difficult (deputization, ect, ect). As such, I'll kick things off.

Remove:
Security Tokens

Keep:
Higher level security on the Armory

Add:
Stun Baton Wrist Straps - Think of it as a Wii-mote. These things take an extra moment for Security to slip on but then batons will not fall to the ground and may only be removed as you would remove clothing. They come standard issue but, again, the user must take a few extra moments to put it on initially.

Taser/Revolver Lanyard Belts - These are not standard issue but can be bought through QM. It connects a small firearm to a special belt. Upon falling over/otherwise losing hold of the firearm the lanyard snaps it away back to your belt assuming that there is room. The downside to this is that the use of the lanyard jumbles the order of any items in the belt in order to slow down weapon retrieval. It is also only usable once before needing to be manually rewound.

---

So, what are other folks ideas for replacing Security Tokens with better, more in-game options?

[Salami Sam]

Wrist Straps
Lanyard Belts 

I think these would be too overpowered. The threat of being slipped/knocked over and losing your weapon keeps sec fights interesting and a bit more balanced. With the token system, you do get a weapon tracker in case your stuff is stolen - which inadvertently becomes a baddie tracker when they run off with your gun!

The token system has grown on me over time. It makes it more difficult to arm and deputize clowns and staff assistants, but it does prevent the HoP from gearing up and going super cop. In the event the crew needs weapons fast, there is the armory and the option for QM to order phasers.

How about some more loadout varieties?

Hall monitor - reflective safety sash, whistle, and quick ticket writer.

Hostage negotiator - megaphone, pizza, sniper rifle.

Dispatch - camera monitor, location pinger, special headset.

Undercover - nondescript clothes headset and id, taser, fake drugs.

[zjdtmkhzt]

I'm not as opposed to the anti-theft devices as Salami Sam is, I think there is still plenty of opportunity to murder a sec officer when they're down, even if you can't take their weapon easily.

As for these additional loadouts, I really love the variety of them and the ideas, they seem really fun roleplay wise, but I think that there is often a problem where the limited amount of sec officers (and thus sec tokens) is likely to cause people to not opt for the more 'gimmicky' loadouts, because they are afraid of a lack of firepower.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to just give every sec officer the standard baton and taser and a token to redeem some non-weapon loadout things?

Like the given hall monitor loadout, hostage kit (sans sniper), the dispatch kit or the undercover kit (sans taser) could all be great things to receive for this token.
Then you could have the same amount of fire power, but every officer could have some other specialty as well, without impacting their default combat effectiveness.

In addition, I think the sniper rifle would be a great thing for the armory, seeing as a hostage situation is something that is obvious, probably announced via radio, so if there is no HoS, the team can go to the armory and get the rifle.
Something like a taser rifle or long ranged tranq rifle sounds like it could be really cool.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

What if there were specialized lockers for the non-weapon things? But like, each ID can only open one.

[Caro]

The token system has grown on me over time. It makes it more difficult to arm and deputize clowns and staff assistants, but it does prevent the HoP from gearing up and going super cop.

It doesn't tho, secHoPs are still a common thing
Because HoPs can just order a sec crate from QM, same for captains. Which also makes them way more powerful antags than the rest of the crew, if they roll it

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

Maybe they could be ID locked? Like the crate isn't, but you need to somehow submit a HoS ID for cent to even send you phasers.

[Chayot]

Aside from tokens, what'd y'all have in mind? As a frequent SEC player, I happen to love the tokens.
I feel tokens really balanced the whole game for crew and Antags alike.
If you don't frequent SEC you may not notice these changes but gameplay across the station has changed a lot.

SURE. SEC and HoP can order/obtain other weapons, yet it takes more time. And they hardly ever think to do it.
Frankly, it probably SHOULD be harder to order them.

With the weapons gone from the lockers, it's been pretty great.
I don't miss the days where packeters would walk in and arm themselves to the teeth.
Or someone leaves the lockers open and all the gangs are now going to win because they're all armed.

[Frank_Stein]

Personally, I see the tokens as kind of a non-traitor telecrystal/syndicate bucks/whatever we're calling those now.

You spend it on different stuff and see what it's like to use that and experiment.

I would love for the system to be more flexible though. It makes the lockers feel weird when all I'll ever want from them is a barrier (essential sec get in my opinion)

Perhaps it would be a good idea to just give every sec officer the standard baton and taser and a token to redeem some non-weapon loadout things?

Like the given hall monitor loadout, hostage kit (sans sniper), the dispatch kit or the undercover kit (sans taser) could all be great things to receive for this token.
Then you could have the same amount of fire power, but every officer could have some other specialty as well, without impacting their default combat effectiveness.

Something like this would be ideal. You should have what you need for free, you should spend a token on something fun or that gives you a specific situational advantage, especially when working with others

[Leeanei]

the sec tokens pretty much instantly solved the issue of the taser rack getting raided and let sec officers have some kit choice. it's good.

does anyone here remember like, two months ago when traitors on rampages armed with 3+ tasers caused discord to blow up 3 times a day? that shit stopped. Let's not undo that.

HoP/Captain traitor are known to be extremely oppressive and easy like traitor det. None of those three should really roll traitor owing to easy weapon access all three enjoy.

[Wisecrack34]

Wait, for clarity why aren't these items just spawned onto the officer like batteries are? If it's for a good reason then why not make ALL of their gear (Pocket thingy included) go with the token insertion? Alongside that, afk players can have their token taken from them (I've done it myself after losing my whole kit to the depths, a bit shitty but we needed an officer) which could enable the same power gaming or just make a late officer's shift extra shitty. How about having it require a blood/hand/eye scan instead?

[MagicStudiosGuy]

I get that the tokens are used to prevent gearing up the captain, hop, and others, but a lot of times theres little to no security and the lack of easy options other than the armory or phasers makes it a little difficult to do that when it is necessary. Maybe make the tokens themselves order-able from QM, so security can deputize the clown or hop if they need or want to.

[jflan17]

HoP/Captain traitor are known to be extremely oppressive and easy like traitor det. None of those three should really roll traitor owing to easy weapon access all three enjoy.

Remove them as traitors and you've created another gigantic problem - they can always be trusted, so valid hunters will go for these roles even more than they do, and they'll use their access to make antags' rounds absolute hell. Fuck that noise. That would be way, way worse.

[Erev]

Wait, for clarity why aren't these items just spawned onto the officer like batteries are?

This is a fair question. Sec, detective, and Heads start in secure areas. Just spawn what they need on them. Why add the extra steps? If they are afk the perpetrator could steal the token anyways, may as well make them steal the actual loot.

Add:
I like the idea of security having a budget for bonus non-lethal items.

[Lady Birb]

Remove them as traitors and you've created another gigantic problem - they can always be trusted, so valid hunters will go for these roles even more than they do, and they'll use their access to make antags' rounds absolute hell. Fuck that noise. That would be way, way worse.

they can always be trusted

• mindslave implants
  
• changelings
  

[Sundance]

=WARNING EFFORT POST=

I like the token system. 

It does however feel unfinished and there's a few problem cases that need to be smoothed out. I'll break it down as much as I can.

1. Does not entirely stop the big stun meta

It makes a good effort, but I feel more could be done. I'll echo what I said in the other thread, that weaponry needs to be restricted in how much one can carry on a person:

The intrinsic problem with security weapons being used as a rampage item is the sheer inventory nonsense. The very concept that you can stick 6 tasers in your belt is obscene.

Restricting belts and bags to 1 x weapon of each type* would alleviate this. 

That means any player would only be able to carry at most 2 tasers and 2 batons (1 pair in the belt, the other pair in their bag) - which is what most solo officers would carry on their person anyway so this would be primarily a nerf to those who hoard guns.

*i.e: you could carry a taser, phaser, pulse rifle, baton on your belt

This would tackle the meta of players raiding the armory instead of the taser rack also, as they'd only be able to fit so many guns on their person.

FYI - it was myself who originally suggested the security toolbelt, and I subsequently sprited it. The original idea was always meant that it would carry 1 of each type, little did I know that i'd be touting this many moons later.

2. Makes it difficult to Deputize.

Solution? Have tokens purchasable at QM for 3000 credits OR create a seperate Security budget (you could tie this in with fines!!) where officers could purchase these from fancy security QM request computer.

This creates a secure barrier, as firstly one needs to get the token but then actually go to security to upgrade themselves. Tied in with point 1, it all just meshes together quite nicely.

3. It requires Armor and Sidearms options so that it doesn't feel like it's a nerf

I like the loadout options and i'd primarily go for the support option as HoS, as I don't feel like I really need more guns. However it does at times feel like a nerf to the average officer. 

I don't think they need another taser, instead a weaker stun sidearm would be very neat. Ideas would be like a Taser Pistol which is pocket sized, small battery but is DNA locked, recharges and only has one mode of fire. Or a Grenade Launcher which has the capacity to hold two grenades, basically a superior Riot Launcher or a Restrainer which acts like a stun baton but also can switch modes and cuff targets or a Shock Boomerang which will cause dizziness and stamina drain when thrown, requires recharges.

You get the gist. Weapons that are inferior to the standard taser, but very useful on their own accord. This is along the lines of the Lawgiver - reducing effectiveness, tackling the meta by increasing the difficulty curve.

Secondly would be an armor choice. Instead of standard armor (which is still there as an option), you can choose different sort of armor which suits your needs. Reactive Armor which injects morphine when in red health, at a cooldown. Brawling Armor which has significant melee protection at a cost of ranged protection, Faraday Armor which will negate a small amount of stamina damage, relocating it to burn (at a cool down) or Thermal Armor which will insulate you from the cold by a small amount at the cost of melee protection. 

You get the gist. This is the best concept I can come up with, I feel combined with these options will make security far better and more fun to play.