Remove genetic things from lings entirely.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

There's been some arguments that lings frequently use genetics to become OP, rather then their own powers. IIRC it's been removed from shamblers but still extends to human-form lings. What if it didn't? Like, being a ling instantly negated all genetic effects. Ling's OP-ness extends even into when they're not in any monster form. They don't need any extra powers from genetics. It would also make in-universe sense. Genetics is designed for and only works on humanoid things. Changelings are not remotely  humanoid, and could easily not even have the same gene structure of animal life. Birds and other things that genetics doesn't work on are way closer to humans than lings.

[pali6]

Same argument could be made for traitors. How are lings different?

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

Traitors are human and don't have a seperate system of powers.

[UrsulaMejor]

traitors have traitor gear instead of powers, though. some options are arguably better stuff to buy than what the changeling has built in (compare sting to sleepypen)

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

Lings being bootleg traitors is a different problem.

[Technature]

Take your Tranq Gun.

Load it with Mutadone Darts.

AIM!

Otherwise just stun one long enough to feed it.

This stuff goes to pretty much any antag people don't immediately nope from, and it feels like it'll just go down a slippery slope. Should vampires not get genes either? Werewolves? Nuke Ops in disguise?

It feels like it's just a nerf against something that caused a knee jerk reaction.

[Erev]

Hard disagree.

If a 'ling rolls Genetics they should be allowed the benefits of that their job allows them. You wouldn't complain if they rolled QM and had access to crates coming in, or Botany and all the plant bullshit. Don't hate on ling Geneticists. (This spoken by someone with Geneticist set to Unwanted and who never uses power booths.)

[Sundance]

I disagree... Mostly.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that if you switch identities, your genetic mutation are lost (unless you mutate back again). This balance is interesting, because if you get ratted out, you have choice: switch identities or stay powered up.

I do feel there's a point to be made with fire resistance here. I don't think lings should have genetic fire resistance whatsoever, unless they're wearing fire clothing (which is balanced by the fact that they'll burst out of it in shambler form). It's the ultimate upgrade for ling and it just seems wayyy to cheesy von breezy for my liking. 

This is speaking from experience btw. I have gone for fire resistance plenty of times as ling. It DOES feel OP. 

So yeah. No to all genes. Yes to having fire resistance not working for them.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

This stuff goes to pretty much any antag people don't immediately nope from, and it feels like it'll just go down a slippery slope. Should vampires not get genes either? Werewolves? Nuke Ops in disguise?

Those are humans, so they'd still get gene fuckery. They're also supposed to be humans with cool powers and weapons, while lings are aiming to be an actual alien.

[GORE]

I disagree since I had some fun encounters after absorbing some crew-members that I was experiencing their good and bad mutations alike once changing into their bodies.

It is fun to potentially be nearly blind or deaf but able to combust into flames.
It is also fun to convert back into the detective and drink as much booze as you like.

Genetics has it's up- and downsides but removing a DNA based game system from interacting with an Antag that is essentially eating people's whole DNA seems silly.
There are always ways to fight back and I think if you try to remove the fun stuff people will just be inclined to powergame more.

One could have a fun experience as a Ling and be unable to speak once changed into the Mime...but also notice that the Mime had radiation resistance or whatever...like,...
I see nothing wrong with the current systems.

It is not as if people spawn in with all the good mutations from round-start.
Also another reminder: if the identity had its cover blown it is way harder to be stealthy about stuff...so yeah,...

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This stuff goes to pretty much any antag people don't immediately nope from, and it feels like it'll just go down a slippery slope. Should vampires not get genes either? Werewolves? Nuke Ops in disguise?

Those are humans, so they'd still get gene fuckery. They're also supposed to be humans with cool powers and weapons, while lings are aiming to be an actual alien.

Vampire != Human
Werevolves != Human

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Also...hard agree with Technature from my point of view.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

I don't understand why ideas to lock guns away from wizards is fine but this isn't.

[GORE]

Wizard should be able to use guns. In the lore it is explained that Wizards just use highly advanced technology which is then perceived as magic. So...yeah Wizards are human.

I'd find it reasonable to see Wizards being unable to use security guns since they might have Wizard detectors build into them...but which could either be short-circuited by an EMAGG or spending a spell-point on a EMAGG like spell...or to hide their wizard aura from people? Like detectors, using sec-guns again,...

Either way...this is de-railing the thread.

@DJ-Fireball_did_This --- There are many opinions out there. Just because some folks disagree with yours does not mean that others think that wizards should be unable to use guns.

[DJ-Fireball_did_this]

The stigma against gun wizzies and attempt to mechanically "fix" it isn't just me.

[GORE]

My point being that there are various opinions. Not only yours or mine...but more. Probably.
Such a balance thing heeds it's own thread though.

[BlackPhoenix]

To my understanding, the biggest problem with gun wizards is/was the ease with which they could fill up on 6 tasers and go around being overpowered on top of overpowered. Getting really dope genetics stuff isn't exactly hard, but it isn't nearly as easy as Wizard popping into the Sec lockers. This is very kneejerk, to me.