PR Feedback: QM Rebalance

[UrsulaMejor]

https://github.com/goonstation/goonstation/pull/1686

please give suggestions for more ways to make money as QM, give feedback on the changes, etc

[ThersitesPorter]

Okay, so I'll leave a more full feedback here than I did on the git so I can elaborate a bit more:

==Initial Questions/Comments==

1. Description says it added 15 new department creation supply packs, but I'm not sure which all have been added. If its all the complex supply_packs, aren't there like 20ish of those?

2. I like the removal of access on honey and mining. People love bee pets, and mining probably is a great call for just throwing out and letting staff assistants run into the void to do exploring and maybe find something useful to boot. As well as letting traitors get their hands on ore if they want to do some mat sci stuff or try to raise money.

3. The Electrical Supplies Crate - 4 Pack needs to have it's value adjusted. Each box produces 7 copper bars, and 7 synthrubber blocks. If each bar and block is now worth 70, that gives each crate a value of 3,920 credits after being reprocessed, and the crate itself can be bought for 1000 credits. A very healthy profit margin.

==Initial Criticisms==

I like the idea of removing "guaranteed" profits, in theory. But the issue I have with implementing nerfs as they stand in that PR is that neither the game nor the in-game culture is currently really geared up towards much interaction with quartermasters except when things really start exploding. People expect the QM to be loaded so that emergency supplies can be bought, but its a rare day when anyone ever provides the QM with any goods. This basically only leaves trade good flipping.

QM has a tough enough time drawing attention to its existence, even WITH near unlimited funding and access to tons of equipment. Without creating a system that encourages people to feed resources into the quartermaster's area or ask them for things outside of emergencies, my fear is that this is just going to either:

1. Result in Quartermasters descending upon the station like ravenous locusts looking for something, anything to sell. This may not be a bad thing in and of itself, but it's going to have to be paired with an admin attitude that stealing station resources to sell as a non-antag is okay. Where does the line between expected QM play and griefing lie? I assume it would be okay to completely empty out tool and material storage. Probably fine to rip up all the floor tiles. What about breaking down walls? Etc. etc. Unless this is also paired with a large reclaimer overhaul which drastically increases the amount of items that can be recycled, there is only so much that can be stolen/collected to be melted down or sold.  

2. The quartermaster/cargo office is now just Botany 2, which I can't say seems like a good improvement. We already have botany. Encouraging QM to just be botany that sells things seems like it's pushing QM as a department towards a less desirable direction. If any particular QM WANTS to start a secondary botany area to do so, that's one thing, but being more or less required to do so by the mechanics and lack of player interaction is sort of a bummer.

3. Just end up with an extraordinarily bored quartermaster who now has no means of generating cash, no cash to buy the new items, and still has no customers because there is no culture of visiting the quartermaster for stuff.

==Possible Suggestions==

Note: I don't know how feasible any of this actually is, this is more just some possible suggestions to attempt to make QM feel more interactive.

1. Remote Sell - Add some sort of feature to allow QMs to put up bounties for requested materials. Player dumps in object and it credits their ID or spits out cash or something along those lines, with the payment taken out of the cargo budget. Could be automated at set values (50-75% of current Market Price?) or could be something that the QMs themselves set? The idea being this encourages people to just sell stuff for cash and its on QM to make sure it's getting exported in reasonable amounts of time. Has the added benefit of the crew potentially even dinging the cargo budget if the QMs are slacking and prices change for the worse.

2. Trade fulfillment - Perhaps setup a system where QMs can request an "order form", that lists a series of items (preferably ones that can be made from the fabricators). If a crate is sent out with the order form included, it results in a payout. Maybe it has to be the full list for a payout, maybe just a partial list for a partial payout? I don't know.

3. Dedicated "Trade Crates" - Crates that can't be opened (filled with nothing of value), that are bought solely for the purpose of holding onto them and selling them when their price fluctuates up. I don't find this one particularly compelling, but it might appeal to those who enjoy playing the market games a bit.

4. Add some sort of notice to Supply Request Computers that if you pay with your own personal credits (via scanning you ID), the order is instantly purchased without needing QM approval. ((Although the crates need to be labeled with who purchased them, which they are not currently)). Combine this with some sort departmental assumption that non-security crates purchased with personal funds aren't to be held hostage, and you hopefully have a bit more of a credit sink and a reason for people to want to sell stuff to QM.

Just my two cents.

[UrsulaMejor]

The goal is not necessarily to get rid of guaranteed profits; only the extremely low-effort/uncreative ones. For example, making cargo holds, smashing bottles for glass, etc. are all still going to be near guaranteed profits. Merely pushing boxes around or mass refining things into sheets/bars is just really bad gameplay compared to those.

Thank you for the shout out re: electrical cable box. I've made some adjustments.

I'll take a look at some of the other ideas for future PRs. right now i'm hoping that giving QM some very interesting/useful things to sell will encourage people to give them stuff to sell more often, and we'll see how that goes.

[UrsulaMejor]

Reading your post, the trade fulfillment idea sounds pretty cool. Dunno how it'd work but maybe I can figure something out.

---

Mechanics Reconstruction Kit: 1x Ruckingenur frame, 1x Manufacturer frame, 1x reclaimer frame, 1x device analyzer, 1x soldering iron

Small Magnet Kit: 1x Magnetizer, 1x Low Performance Magnet Kit, 1x Magnet Chassis Frame

Magnet Kit: 1x Magnetizer, 1x High Performance Magnet Kit, 1x Magnet Chassis Frame

Manufacturer Kit: Frames: 1x General Manufacturer, 1x Mining Manufacturer, 1x Gas Extractor, 1x Clothing Manufacturer, 1x Reclaimer

Pod Production Kit: Frames: 1x Ship Component Fabricator, 1x Reclaimer

Basic Power Kit: Frames: 1x SMES cell, 2x Furnace

Artifact Research Kit: Frames: 5x Data Terminal, 1x Pitcher, 1x Impact pad, 1x Heater pad, 1x Electric box, 1x X-Ray machine

Bathroom Kit: Frames: 4x Toilet, 1x Sink, 1x Shower Head, 1x Bathtub

Kitchen Kit: 1x Fridge, Frames: 1x Oven, 1x Mixer, 1x Sink, 1x Deep Fryer, 1x Food Processor, 1x ValuChimp, 1x FoodTech, 1x Meat Spike, 1x Gibber

Bar Kit: 2x Glassware box, Frames: 1x Alcohol Dispenser, 1x Soda Fountain, 1x Ice Cream Machine, 1x Kitchenware Recycler, 1x Microwave

Arcade Machine: Frames: 1x Arcade Machine

Medbay kit: 1x Defibrillator, 2x Hypospray, 1x Medical Belt, Frames: 1x NanoMed, 1x Medical Records computer

Operating Room kit: 1x Staple Gun, 1x Defibrillator, 2x Scalpel, 2x Circular Saw, 1x Hemostat, 2x Suture, 1x Enucleation Spoon, Frames: 1x Medical Fabricator, 1x Operating Table


Robotics kit: 1x Staple Gun, 1x Scalpel, 1x Circular Saw, Frames: 1x Robotics Fabricator, 1x Operating Table, 1x Module Rewriter, 1x Recharge station

Genetics kit: 1x DNA Modifier Circuit Board, 1x DNA Scanner Frame

Cloning kit: Circuitboards: 1x Cloning Console, Frames: 1x Cloning Scanner, 1x Cloning Pod, 1x Enzymatic Reclaimer

[Sundance]

See these bad boys in Destiny map? I always forget the name of them 



If you're going down the route of having Departmental stuff being purchasable, it'd be neat if you could buy the High Pressure Air one. For y'know, breaches.
It'd be balanced in the fact you need to deploy it, effectively anchored. You can then use it to refill used up canisters.

[Kamades]

So, did a lot of feedback on the changes this morning on discord, and now have a few more rounds under my belt.

The round where RNG shut me down hard, was REALLY BAD. Traders had.. nothing, I struggled to make it to 50k over 2 hours of play. I'm a decent QM, and that round was.. awful. Destiny makes doing anything with honey in an even moderately secure way awful.

Mining kit needs an ore scoop and a miners belt.

Medical belt should be moved from Medbay Kit to the rebalanced medbay restock kit, or doctors should just spawn with a belt (I prefer the latter).

Super +1 to Sundance's suggestion - 10k? seems about right?

The bee crates that start in QM on many maps (Clarion, Oshan come to mind) are still the cardlocked variety.

As I mentioned, not sure the reclaimer needs to be in as many of the kits as they are, since they can easily be ordered seperately for 1k, if you need them.

[Frank_Stein]

I've always thought QM needed more reasons to buy from one trader and sell to another, or to stock up on items when they're cheap and hold them until they go up in value

[ThersitesPorter]

Found another potentially dumb meta.

Welcome to the Pizza Delivery Boy era. Buy Soft Soft Pizza, cut it up, sell it to Buford for like 700% profits.

It's not quite as bad as Fresh Produce meta though, because you're only making about 1200ish per crate. But it also means you never really need to visit the bar because you're drowning in fries and soda.

[Sundance]

Found another potentially dumb meta.

Welcome to the Pizza Delivery Boy era. Buy Soft Soft Pizza, cut it up, sell it to Buford for like 700% profits.

I recall Cogworks telling me that this is actually a thing. There's a % chance that Bufort will be extremely stoned (you'll notice his speech changing) and will be very generous and will also buy pizza for big bux.

On that angle - more unique traders with unique needs would be swell.