Clarify the RP servers "Don't speak about what you logically don't know" rule?

[Technature]

I've had like my fourth round the other day where someone came up to security to give us contrabrand (a poison bottle this time) followed by the person explaining in detail that it definitely came from a traitor and that they probably ordered more things from their PDA gear, as well as other "It's an antag, I know what it is so my character must too" moments being commonplace.

Perhaps if there was a page on the wiki explaining what is known in terms of antag knowledge, this problem might start going away...

[Carbadox]

Personally, I always considered it to be a bit of rule that's open to your own interpretation. To me, it means "act like realistically, if you were in your character shoes, would you really know the same things they do?" and "Stay in your own lane unless circumstances suggest it would be better to do so otherwise"

In the given example, that just sounds like someone not really trying to RP at all. Unless the bottle had a label on it that said poison, which could still be construed as a joke by co workers, or if they were a scientist that analysed the solution, just running over to sec yelling "I GOT A BOTTLE OF POISON" is kind sucky.

[Sundance]

On the flipside, I think it's also important to clarify who should know what, particularly from a security angle. 

The great offender here is Wraith. Why would security (or anybody) know that salt is the correct method here? People on Wraith rounds just seem to arbitrarily know when to use salt from round to round.. there's zero RP consistency. 

But at the same time, if people didn't put down salt, there'd be literally no other way of fighting the wraith, nor would this incident come about in any way naturally. 

I feel like this could be tackled IC by changing the Command print out (which is a massive red herring) to giving a vague bare bones run down on every antagonist (not the ones that may appear on that given round)

I.e: Changeling - mutagenic organism, appears to use poison to knock out prey, reacts negatively to fire. Wraith - Evil presense, reacts negatively to salt. 

This way command are aware of certain things, and have an IC justification to do so. But the crew would not. This creates an more cohesive environment that facilitates better RP.

[aft2001]

I think the best way to handle this is to let those who would realistically know even a bit about the issue speak. With the Wraith example, the chaplain should 100% be the source of all information, as well as the AI (though the AI knows a bit about everything, but I can extend upon this later with how I personally do things). With the poison bottle example and syndie traitor gear, the HoS would be the source of this information, but again, not fully complete.

Regarding the AI, however, I would personally say that the AI can access this information *as needed*, with self-imposed limitations, such as factual inaccuracies, a time delay between when the information is necessary and when it is actually produced, and not having all the info. With changelings, for example, I give a good deal of info on them, as well as junk info like species designation and population count, but not everything - I mention a 'Evolutionary Contigency' or something, strongly implying that *something* happens upon death, but I don't specify or even know what (as in, I as the AI don't know about headspiders). I should also note that, as AI, you should not take priority over the word of whoever has authority on the topic, unless they're not saying anything or are obviously incompetent (maybe im biased as an ai main but shut up). If the Research Director says that vampires can see through walls, even if you know they can't, just assume what they're saying is true if it at least sounds plausible.


I also think that this info shouldn't be spouted over the general comms unless absolutely necessary (rampager, etc.). The goal is to let those responsible for fighting the threat have some understanding of what they're working against, but crew not involved should absolutely not be aware unless explained to. As has been said again and again, STAY IN YOUR LANE.

[Sundance]

This... doesn't happen as often as people would like Aft, at least from my perspective. This is especially obvious with the larger player count.

The Wraith salting in particular doesn't come from an RP perspective. It's done spontaneously.

This puts the onus on specific individuals to effectively control the RP, as they see fit. This isn't something we should be doing, these players aren't admins. There are rounds where there's no HoS. There are rounds where there is no AI. There's rounds where there's no Chaplain. There are rounds with little to no Command structure other than the Captain. There's rounds where there is a command structure, but they're completely inept. 

I've always taken the stance where if something cannot be effectively controlled from an IC perspective, then we can enshrine in some other format. 

Which is why I feel a ~TOP SECRET~ Printout could work here. Give Command the bare bones. No Command? Well then another player can retrieve this print out by simply entering the bridge. 

But here's where things get interesting. If there is an effective Command, and they are debriefed with this printout, then its in their best interests (as per instruction from the printout) to keep this on the down low. This also gives justification for Command meetings, which provides more interesting RP. 

Hell, this could even be a drip fed thing. There could be a second printout which provides more information on the various antagonists one might face, later in the round.

To tie this back in with the OP, because this is ~TOP SECRET~ then if a player comes to security or Command and provides info that they should not know, then Security/Command could have an IC reason for being suspicious of that player. Why do they know these things? Are they in cahoots? Did someone tell them of the ~TOP SECRET~ document? 

I agree that players should stay in their lane. I just feel there should be a medium that enables players to do so.

[aft2001]

That's a pretty good idea actually; continual printouts based on the current round antags or announcements or whatever. Sorry, I think I misinterpreted the goal of the post with that previous message.

I 100% agree though - there definitely has to be a way to let people figure things out when the necessary roles aren't present, and ways to discourage just blurting out things you wouldn't know IC.

[Mouse]

In the given example, that just sounds like someone not really trying to RP at all. Unless the bottle had a label on it that said poison, which could still be construed as a joke by co workers, or if they were a scientist that analysed the solution, just running over to sec yelling "I GOT A BOTTLE OF POISON" is kind sucky.

Well, the item is literally named "poison bottle" and if I'm remembering correctly the examine text has something about a skull and crossbones.

[Frank_Stein]

I think some stuff can be considered common knowledge

Nanotrasen employees know they might be targeted for corporate espionage or assassination because that's just what happens to Nanotrasen on a regular basis.

They probably have them watch a safety video over it during orientation.

[aft2001]

The idea that crew would see a safety video saying "If you see people in red space suits, report it to Security immediately, and don't panic!" is hysterical and also genuinely a good idea

[Technature]

On the Wraith.

I feel that enough people (at least in the United States you superstitious fucks) feel there is enough evidence to believe that ghosts are real and genuinely may or may not want to fuck shit up for the living, and it wouldn't be too out there for some people to be so obsessed with the paranormal that they may know that salt is a good thing to use to get rid of them.

On the other hand, there's no reasonable explanation that anyone being the sole witness to a werewolf, vampire, or changeling trying to explain their story (in a way of saying "We're infested with a terrible monster!!!!!" rather than say something like "I think I saw X bite someone" or "X drugged me and I fell asleep for a long time") should be met with any response from someone beyond "You watch too many movies man".  People should definitely not be saying "Must be a ling" when someone DOES explain something that happened in a reasonable manner either.

Also fuck wraiths oh my god

[aft2001]

While there's a lot of good discussion as to what people *should* do, like Sundance said this isn't what would happen in-game. There 100% needs to be a way to encourage people to RP more and better, but that is far easier said than done.

How can we best get this into the heads of people who are playing on an RP server without being too intrusive and annoying about it?

[Adhara In Space]

https://wiki.ss13.co/User:Adhara_In_Space/RP-Primer
some stuff i wrote with some other rp nerds a while ago

[Sundance]

https://wiki.ss13.co/User:Adhara_In_Space/RP-Primer
some stuff i wrote with some other rp nerds a while ago

This is some good shit right here.

But my complaint remains - if a Chaplain isn't on the station, then knowledge of how to combat a Wraith / Vamp becomes obscured and players will have to bend (and sometimes break) their IC knowledge. 

Sometimes it isn't even about the Chaplains existence either. To provide an actual in game occurrence, I recall asking a Chaplain how to ward off ghosts on the station. His reply? "Faith will save you, my son!". Was he wrong? Well yes, but we're talking about IC knowledge here, so he was justified in his response. 

For syndicate, revs, spy thieves, nuke ops, etc, there could be educational posters up. For Wraiths and Vamps, Wizards and various creepy crawlies, there could be a book in the chapel that could be referred to.
For ling and blobs, something in the RD's office. Etc etc etc.

Not the entire wiki breakdown, but just a hint of their existence.

You see where I'm going with this. Take those good ideas and enshrine them in game.

[aft2001]

Having actual in-game documentation and notes and stuff is an amazing idea. While I try to provide that as NEX-13, as necessary, I'd prefer for a printout to be made automatically. Maybe have the game keep track of how bad an antag is getting, primarily lings and vampires and other things, and make a printout at the bridge detailing basic things about lings/vamps at some point?

For spy thieves, if enough stuff is stolen, a printout should also be made detailing the basic premise of the spy thief's operations on-station and maybe some tell-tale signs as to who might be one.

I personally love printers since they can be so handy in RP, and I think they're a REALLY good way to get information to players. But I also fucking love Sundance's idea of having books and journals and tomes and stuff scattered around in the right places, especially if there's junk info (like "Align 5 candles to form the corners and center of a square to best ward a malaevolent spirit from an area") that gets in the way of mechanically relevant info, but is still something to do in-game for flavor. Hell, maybe even audio logs could be useful!

[Sundance]

Especially if there's junk info (like "Align 5 candles to form the corners and center of a square to best ward a malaevolent spirit from an area") that gets in the way of mechanically relevant info, but is still something to do in-game for flavor. Hell, maybe even audio logs could be useful!

Red herrings and mixed formats are an absolute must. An audio log of an unfortunate crew getting overwhelmed by a blob and just incoherent screaming throughout is one idea I'm toying with. The RD playing this to the Captain to create a sense of malaise sounds too good to pass up. 

I'm going to work on this idea as I feel stuff like this could be easily added with very little coding required - just sprites and wording based off of Adhara's wiki page. 

My first concept would be the Vampires Hunting Journal (Name TBA) which is a container (much like the bible) containing: 
- A paper describing a vampire, despite no ascertainable features actually attributed to the vampire. Reads like a fable.
- Garlic, another source of holy water if you can extract it!
- A stake. A red herring, does absolutely no extra damage to a vampire, but is a decent stabbing weapon nonetheless. 

... Would this encourage better RP? Maybe, maybe not. I think it's worth a shot, at least it would enable those who want to try do so. If anyone has any further ideas, by all means.