03-06-2018, 07:56 PM (This post was last modified: 04-15-2018, 08:47 AM by Mordent. Edited 11 times in total.)
EDIT: Absolutely forgot something that was very important: big thanks to AmaranthineApocalypse and Noah Buttes for taking on the code curse and getting this thing started.
Prepare for some TRANSPARENCY.
Okay, so the cyborg module update was too big for the changelog. This thread should cover the new state of things, plus plans for where it's going.
Firstly, a (non-comprehensive) list of what this update is not:
A final state of how cyborgs will be
Unable to be changed
Supposed to make cyborgs "playable" (for those who think they aren't)
This is a band-aid fix designed to provide a small improvement in the short-term. The thread (and specific post) used for most of the inspiration is this one. This does not include every change in that post.
Broadly speaking, the things included are either a) things that already exist, or b) non-buffed/nerfed versions of what already exist.
At the time of posting, cyborg module tools are as follows (in order):
All Modules
Flashlight
Omnitool
Health analyzer (upgraded)
Reagent scanner
Atmospherics scanner
PDA
Blank Module
Nothing! This is what the robotics manufacturers spit out, you get just the basic tools that all modules get. If a cyborg is being a bit shit I suppose you can give them this? They've still got an omnitool to stab you to death with, though.
This is also what the AI eyebots get to pick from, so they have a couple more scanners now. Yay?
Securotron-5000 (the thing that lets you change crew's arrest status)
Cardboard tube
Forensic scanner
Audio log (the tape can be ejected, there is no way to get it back in at the moment - left this way for now as it's not exactly game-breaking)
Camera monitor (Added, as per Frank_Stein's suggestion)
Hand labeler (Added, as a sorta thing for Frank_Stein's suggestion)
I believe I've covered all relevant things to do with robot modules. I have a list of things that need changing/variants that need making. They are coming. If you see something in the list above and think it's too weak/strong/whatever, check the list below for a planned variant before suggesting it, please.
Pending Variants
Cardboard tube: changing a little to give it a small chance to disarm (will apply to cardboard tubes in general) and probably reskinning as something like a wiffle bat
Bucket: large (100u) variant pending
Hypospray: large (50u) variant pending
Fire extinguisher: large (or self-filling, consuming energy?) variant pending
Pen: configurable variant pending (basically a customisable writing implement)
Audio log: let it load tapes via drag/drop (or letting clicking on a tape with a player switch the tapes out)
There are some things in the original thread that are yet to come, mostly because they involve refactoring/reworking a lot of other parts of the codebase. Feel free to oppose these things/suggest other things, but please try to scope your ideas to tools rather than anything else.
Future Things
Bugs/Broken Stuff/Other Improvements
Update UI artwork/module sprites for modules to reflect new names (blank, civilian, brobocop)
Make the spectroscopic part of chemistry cyborgs an actual upgrade rather than built into their module (and obviously give it to them by default)
Fix cyborg cosmetics/paint
Fix non-starting modules lacking PDAs
Chemical dispenser interface for cyborgs should use the nice one rather than the godawful interface currently
General improvements to allow cyborgs to interact with more things (e.g. load materials into manufacturers without a crate/satchel)
Once things have settled down a bit, the wiki needs updating - I don't envision the number of modules changing, do feel free to get involved with this now so that newcomers don't have completely out of date information
New Tools/Tool Tweaks (to work for Cyborgs)
Unilyzer (for all modules): all analyzers in one, either context sensitive or cycleable depending on what seems sensible
Medical omnitool (for Medical module): cycle between scalpel/saw/spoon/cauterise (suture) modes, replacing relevant tools
Portable oven (for Civilian module)
Portable food processor (for Civilian module)
Storage transporter (for Mining module, likely rebranding as Resource module): like the atmospherics transporter, but accepts one crate/locker
Basic chem dispenser (for Chemistry module): consumes a significant amount of power, allows adding basic chemicals to reagent containers - is going to need some thinking about for balance reasons.
Soda/synthehol dispenser (for Brobocop module): dispenses sodas, plus synthehol (a non-tox damaging variant of ethanol, so no human harm!)
Some sort of basic handcuffs/duct tape/zipties (for Brobocop module): current implementation of cuffs/tape/zipties doesn't work as a cyborg tool
Pseudo-random number generator (for Brobocop module), replaces coin/d6 and gives them more options
High-capacity camera (for Brobocop module)
Power hammer (for Mining module)
Portable ore processor (for Mining/Resource module), for on-the-go processing (possibly also acting as a reclaimer, going to need a lot of testing)
Some sort of universal reagent storage that works as both a bucket and an icing tube (for Civilian module): basically looking to reduce the number of tools here
Combine the chainsaw/knife into one tool (for Civilian module): with the tool refactoring, a tool that works in both capacities should be possible. Yes, it will probably also work for surgery, but do not expect it to be safe!
Material fabricator (for Engineering module): roll the four material stacks into one tool that lets you create sheets/rods/tiles/cable for usage (not just for dropping everywhere) that can apply them/their reinforced variants for construction purposes in exchange for decent amounts of energy.
Mediborgs need something to replace limbs with (either a tool able to pick up/install limbs, or something to generate limbs; if the former, stapler too!)
Add ticketing programme to cyborg PDA.
There's plenty of related cool stuff incoming, but keeping this conversation to the scope of stuff to do with modules/tools would be great. If you have other cyborg suggestions, please try to find a relevant thread to add to/make your own.
03-06-2018, 09:44 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2018, 10:00 PM by Lady Birb. Edited 1 time in total.)
One request I have is to give medical borgs a way to install organs and/or limbs onto patients (probably through clickdrag) as well as a staple gun or a less horribly lethal equivalent. In it's current state, the only beneficial surgery that medical borgs can preform are shrapnel and headspider removal, and other than that all their tools are useful for is murdering nonhumans and debraining corpses. Giving them a way to install limbs and organs, as well as giving them a stapler, will allow non-rogue medical borgs to actually use their tools for something other than removing bullets from careless detectives.
Brobocop was supposed to be a little less than halfway between Joke module and Sec module, right? With all their Sec tools being more helpful for info gathering and support?
Things they could use:
Camera monitor
Forensic Scanner
Sticker printer - Not just for vandalism, but also marking evidence and people
03-06-2018, 10:13 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2018, 10:18 PM by Mordent. Edited 3 times in total.)
(03-06-2018, 09:44 PM)Lord Birb Wrote: One request I have is to give medical borgs a way to install organs and/or limbs onto patients (probably through clickdrag) as well as a staple gun or a less horribly lethal equivalent. In it's current state, the only beneficial surgery that medical borgs can preform are shrapnel and headspider removal, and other than that all their tools are useful for is murdering nonhumans and debraining corpses. Giving them a way to install limbs and organs, as well as giving them a stapler, will allow non-rogue medical borgs to actually use their tools for something other than removing bullets from careless detectives.
Yep. I forgot to add that to my future plans list. Doing so now.
(03-06-2018, 09:47 PM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Brobocop was supposed to be a little less than halfway between Joke module and Sec module, right? With all their Sec tools being more helpful for info gathering and support?
Things they could use:
Camera monitor
Forensic Scanner
Sticker printer - Not just for vandalism, but also marking evidence and people
They have a forensic scanner. I'm giving them a hand labeller as an amusing compromise for the sticker thing. Camera monitor is a good shout. Updating post, will update code tomorrow.
I've updated the knife and rolling pins to be less powerful variants, so that problem's been nipped in the bud.
cool so the fact that mordent can do all those bug fixes and now this big thing means he is actually a dark god sent from hell, which explains his immunity to the coding curse
Building off of that, maybe they should get two large beakers instead of the one? Having only 3 beakers for chems, but 2 hypos, 2 syringes, and a dropper seems a bit strange since you're carrying at most 3 chems rather than the previous 4. Typically what I would do as mediborg was dump the styptic and silver sulfadiazine at roundstart and fill them with things like salbutamol or saline, changing them out depending on how the shift was going. Two beakers also makes the current chem interface a bit more bearable.
I think the medical omnitool sounds good on paper, but when all surgeries require 2 tools and alternating between them, flipping through an omnitool would slow down surgery time quite a bit. I prefer them as they are now since you can swap tools on the fly and perform relatively quick surgery.
03-07-2018, 05:31 AM (This post was last modified: 03-07-2018, 05:32 AM by Mordent. Edited 1 time in total.)
(03-07-2018, 04:56 AM)SimianC Wrote: Two hyposprays for mediborgs? A dream come true!
Building off of that, maybe they should get two large beakers instead of the one? Having only 3 beakers for chems, but 2 hypos, 2 syringes, and a dropper seems a bit strange since you're carrying at most 3 chems rather than the previous 4. Typically what I would do as mediborg was dump the styptic and silver sulfadiazine at roundstart and fill them with things like salbutamol or saline, changing them out depending on how the shift was going. Two beakers also makes the current chem interface a bit more bearable.
I think the medical omnitool sounds good on paper, but when all surgeries require 2 tools and alternating between them, flipping through an omnitool would slow down surgery time quite a bit. I prefer them as they are now since you can swap tools on the fly and perform relatively quick surgery.
My theory regarding the beakers is that they shouldn't have more chemistry utility than the chemistry borg. From what I've seen mediborgs are one of the most-played, so this minor nerf (or neutral, if you count the second hypospray) is intended to not be a power increase overall relative to other borgs; indeed medical cyborgs haven't really had their tools changed other than the addition of an atmospheric scanner (plus a hypospray, minus a beaker).
I've got some much longer term plans regarding reagents and cyborgs; I intend to let this stay as-is for now, if people feel a fourth beaker is necessary in a few weeks I'll see about adding it or some other compromise.
Regarding the medical omnitool, part of the reason this has stalled for so long is that I needed to go and rework how tools work (which got us the regular omnitool), and with the current way I'm hoping to implement the medical omnitool (combined with a slight surgery rework) it's a bit different from the plan above, essentially it'll be in "progress" or "repair" mode (cycle between them on click), with the progress one advancing the surgery a step (so counting as a scalpel, saw, or enucleation spoon depending on what's needed) and the repair one counting as a suture.
This change is much more complicated than that, as it is intertwined with how surgery works, so I'd appreciate people not asking me how this is going to work yet or whatever because I'm still fleshing it out so any answer I give is likely to not be representative of the reality.
Either Civiliain or arguably Brobocop, how about a chem dispenser but it has the same options as the soda machine in the bar. So you can serve drinks (With maybe a cocktail doodad/fruit slice option as well)
Maybe give the Medborg a couple medical omnitools. While most surgeries involve more than one tool, rarely does it need more than two or three. Scalpel, Saw, and Suture should cover most surgeries (though then why give them an omnitool when they'd each end up being set to one tool all the time?).
04-15-2018, 08:44 AM (This post was last modified: 04-15-2018, 08:44 AM by Mordent. Edited 1 time in total.)
(03-08-2018, 09:30 PM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Either Civiliain or arguably Brobocop, how about a chem dispenser but it has the same options as the soda machine in the bar. So you can serve drinks (With maybe a cocktail doodad/fruit slice option as well)
I could get behind upgrading the brobocop's drinking glass to a pitcher, and switching out the beer bottle for some sort of whitelisted reagent synthesizer (sodas and alcoholic stuff would seem fair). My only concern with this is people running the "feed people a load of alcoholic drinks" thing into the ground.
Perhaps their only alcoholic reagent is synthehol, which has the same general effects of ethanol but without the tox damage, so it doesn't count as human harm? Bonus: another cool reagent for coders to make chemnerds go and demand from cyborgs to make secret chems with.
(03-09-2018, 12:22 PM)Superlagg Wrote: Maybe give the Medborg a couple medical omnitools. While most surgeries involve more than one tool, rarely does it need more than two or three. Scalpel, Saw, and Suture should cover most surgeries (though then why give them an omnitool when they'd each end up being set to one tool all the time?).
Surgery stuff has not yet been refactored to meet the requirements for medical omnitools to be a thing. It's high on my to-do list. The mechanics of surgery will likely be tweaked slightly in doing this, and it will allow for a lot of cool stuff that I'm keeping to myself for now because I don't want to over-promise and under-deliver.
(04-15-2018, 07:45 AM)Frank_Stein Wrote: Something I realized while playing Brobocop borg: They have no way to issue tickets or fines. Either the pda program, or a paper dispenser would work.
With the paper they could use the pen they have to create the ticket, as well as provide rolling papers
I see no problem in giving cyborgs the ticketing PDA program. It's not like they can't just go to a bank console and remove the funds directly from your account anyway, might as well streamline the process. I'll add to my to-do list.
Goonhub
