make HoS non exclusive to mentors

[warcrimes]

I don't understand the objection "It'd make people lose respect for the HoS"

Can anyone explain why respect for HoS's is important?

HoS is a dick-measuring post, and those who've notched their johnson's terminus don't want the fence repainted.

[Xeram]

I don't understand the objection "It'd make people lose respect for the HoS"

Can anyone explain why respect for HoS's is important?

HoS is whitelisted behind people who are certified not shit and or knowledgeable. The HoS derives a special and unique ability to tell people to quit being shit/stop doing what they're doing and have it actually work on anyone who doesn't have similar access. I've used this on poo security officers several times when I stumble into the brig and find them permabrigging or otherwise being a bad cop to someone for literally no other reason than "I don't like them" when as literally any other job I'd absolutely have to fight that shitsec to put an end to that.

[Ed Venture]

tbh no-one applies for HoS any more

Because no one plays security anymore. We've only been talking about the various reason to why in three active threads for almost two weeks now.

[fosstar]

Making mentors autowhitelisted for hos isn't that bad of a idea as hos requires less trust then mentors tbh, "OH don't be shitsec and be fair" Vs "Be one of the main people new players go to for guidance, be able to act in a semiprofessional way, be competent enough to explain concepts to new players, and show enough restraint to not allow knowledge coming from mentorhelps to influence the way you play the game", If we trust mentors enough for the latter we can trust them for the former.

[bubs]

im inclined to agree with fosstar, if we trust mentors enough to represent the community in one way or another we can trust them with the rooty tooty aim and shooty. in the past some people might have been upset at the group becoming less exclusive but since few people seem to play HOS these days i doubt anyone would give a shit

[Frank_Stein]

Over the years I've played Sec enough that I've considered applying for HoS.

Despite what it says next to my name, I never applied as a mentor either.

TBH I'm might do both at some point, but I can see a person only wanting to apply to one or the other. Which isn't an argument against opening up HoS, just me wondering whether you can still apply for one or the other

[Ed Venture]

If you snark at me one more time I'm going to ban you, Ed Venture.

We're all completely sick of how rude you are to all of us all the time, and we're not putting up with it any more.

I'm sorry wonkmin. Just frustrated. I feel like my people skills have gotten better just ask readster in discord. I guess I just don't know what some of you consider rude. If you feel there's still no improvement then I'm gonna take a break from the forums for a couple months. I deeply apologize to you and anyone else in this community I've made feel bad recently. If you wish to hash it out on discord to work it out ill be there still cause our discord is super chill and I don't want to leave it. I love you guys sorry I do a very poor job of showing it.

---

Being rude cause I am frustrated is no excuse and makes feel like a hypocrite. So a break is needed. I won't log in for a couple months after this post. Deeply sorry I have such a hard time communicating properly here I don't have this issue anywhere else including in real life. But you're right I've been rude in all security threads recently I just hope you understand why I am frustrated with the state of the role.

[Avack]

I've got a few thoughts to give on the suggestions in this thread. I freely admit there's people who know more about this than me, but I'm discovering today that I feel more passionately about this than expected.

 Preamble, and on giving more people HoS whitelist:
Spoiler!

 As I understand it, the purpose behind giving HoS powers to mentors or, indeed, everyone is simply to bring us more HoSes. What I wonder about, though, is what is the point of a HoS, and will this defeat it? Is a HoS who hasn't applied for it just a sec officer with a hat and a gun? Maybe it's just me, but I feel that the purpose of a HoS is to be somebody you can trust more than anybody else to be a good player; A captain can be any old fool, as can any regular security officer, but a HoS has been accepted by the community both as an able and reasonable player and as an able and reasonable security officer. Doesn't making the role easier to play as, then, weaken the trust you can put into people playing it? And, if that's the point of the role, does that mean having more of them around is worth the trade-off?

 On the responsibilities of mentors vs. HoSes:
Spoiler!

 I think that the skills required for being a mentor are different from that required for being a HoS. I like to think I'm a good mentor, and well qualified: I know stuff about the game that sometimes people want to know, and I can be trusted to provide this knowledge without metagaming or overstepping the mark. I'm also of the opinion that I am a bad sec officer: I get over-invested in my task; I get angry with the crew, my colleagues and myself; and I frankly doubt my abilities to keep order or identify criminals. I'm not saying that holds for all mentors, since there are plenty of excellent security players in the purple ranks, but I most certainly am saying that the qualifications required, as it were, are different.
 I think there's a reason why HoSes get mentor status, but not vice-versa, and a reason why people have, in the past, had their HoS applications turned down with the reasoning "apply for mentor instead". I think the requirements are similar, but different: both must be trustworthy, but HoSes are also required to be level-headed in the heat of a busy round and able to act in the best interests of the crew.

 On the current lack of HoSes:
Spoiler!

Welcome to 2018's most redundant spoiler. All I have to say on this is that I think that, once we have more sec, we will have more HoSes. There are some wonderful ideas floating around the forums right now on making security more frequently played, and I think that if people are playing security, people will be applying for HoS.

 Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got a headache and a hacking cough to melt away into. if I don't return, assume my brain's turned to dust and my lungs have emigrated.

[Vitatroll]

Honestly I read this as 'make HoS all inclusive'. I'm less negative about it being mentor+.

Still think the thought that it'd revive sec is super silly. Sec didn't die because HoSs stopped playing. Sec isn't revived on fridays. Are mentors held to higher standards to the rest? No, not really. It's just a status you can get if you aren't an asshole for a couple months. The HoS vetting process ensures leaders. This process creates enforcers, or in other words a single TURD.

I wouldn't like the change as I like to think of HoS as mythical beings that can bollywood superhero the station out of dire straights. Still, I won't fuss much. I'll just internally groan like I do when some admin randomnames HoS and gets eaten/slaved in the first 5 minutes.

[I came back to this tab after a gooood while of inactivity. New posts be damned.]

[Firebarrage]

Hi. I am one of the hosses and honestly think there are a lot of people out there who are worthy of the beret but just wont go through with the application. My suggestion - lock the job behind a certain number of rounds played as security. e.g. once you have played 50 rounds as security the job opens for you.

[fosstar]

Actually i have a idea, give mentors HOS after 10 sec rounds, but make people who applied for the beret get priority and make mentors only get the hat instead of the beret to distinguish between mentor HOSes and full HOSes.

[Cyfarfod]

I would prefer to know I can count on an HoS having a certain level of game-knowledge and robustness. Any level-headedness is just gravy.

Hi. I am one of the hosses and honestly think there are a lot of people out there who are worthy of the beret but just wont go through with the application. My suggestion - lock the job behind a certain number of rounds played as security. e.g. once you have played 50 rounds as security the job opens for you.

SURVIVED 50 sec rounds, maybe, would be a good middle ground.

[Wisecrack34]

Add deputy for those who've played/survived a large amount of Sec rounds. They get Armory access IF the confirmed hostile button has been pushed, a revolver box and are the Sec equivalent of an HoP

[OMJ]

gonna necro this; would like to see HoS opened up a little more to stimulate more of them

[poland spring]

Ass day