make HoS non exclusive to mentors

[OMJ]

try it out for a week and watch sec revive. don't think we need the mentor wall anymore considering most of our player base is exceptionally civilized.

now that the armory's been nerfed the long way we really don't need to place this behind a wall anymore.
stupid idea? sure, but i think we'll see a sec renaissance come of this + other players from other servers who wanna play a Codename Pink style with good intentions who love our features who don't necessarily have the spare hours to put in to get their e-street cred in.

let's just try this out for a little bit.

[Firepower]

I don't think it's a lack of HoSs that are preventing security from thriving. Even when I play HoS I rarely get any security officers playing with me. I think the culture at Goonstation makes it sorta difficult to play security and get taken seriously. As sometimes cracking down on people doing "illegal" stuff can be seen as unfun.

Besides I like HoS being a position that is universally identified as trustworthy. If we open it up to anyone then the HoS position will lose its prestige and be about as respected as the captain, which is to say not at all.

[cyberTripping]

Since this seems to be a big topic right now, Ill give my broad opinion as someone who doesn't play security :

I don't (well, didn't, i dont play much ss13 anymore) play sec that much if ever based on the idea that it would mean I'd be the first line of defense when shit starts going down on the station. As someone who isn't legendarily robust, knowing that'd be the case turned me off from the idea, even though it'd probably help me practice, yknow, not being bad at combat. The idea that I'd also be the second biggest harassment target to fart on and steal from next to the clown (again due to relatively poor fighting ability) cemented the feeling for me.

I doubt I'm the best or most average sample of the community since I preferred RP1 and stopped playing when it conclusively died, but at least it's a perspective?

[Technature]

As an HoS and someone who raids the armory on a semi-normal basis, I kind of have to err on the side of "no". The weapons are nothing to some of the antag gear, but it's terrible enough that a random griefing prick could easily ruin the round for just about everyone with them if not dealt with immediately. And normally I'd agree with the "It's only one round ruined if an admin gets alerted" thing which is an otherwise solid arguement, but security is treated like shit as it is. Having randoms giving people a legitimate reason to hate an already disliked part of the game would be really bad if we want to change that.

[Ed Venture]

This is a awful idea that would just lead to shit players playing HoS and before you use the argument that admins would stop these people dead in their tracks I'd argue they would not as people who fuck with security to the extent where they cant do their job don't get punished half of the time so it's safe for me to assume the same would happen to shit security players.

Also it would just feel awesome having the two years of effort I put in to be accepted and trusted enough to become a HoS down the drain. Boy I just love ideas that go "Haha you wasted your time!"

[Superlagg]

HoS is a role that's supposed to exude something that most other roles don't by default: competence. When you hear the HoS join, or see em around the halls, they're supposed to instil in you the thought that they mean business. This is accomplished by only letting those who'd actually fit into that role play that role.

[Vitatroll]

Echoing here. The armory isn't obscenely useful. The reason the HoS is relevant is due to the vetting process. I still regret Aye-ing a HoS or two, and these were skilled people who put in their dues. Making it open would just make me lose all respect for the role.

Sec needs leadership, yeah. I've seen staff assistants rally sec tho, so it's more about personality than position.

[Lady Birb]

As nobody has pointed it out yet, but I think it is relevant: mentors actually get hos access on fridays. Feel free to try it sometime.

[atomic1fire]

Funnier idea: Enable HOS for everyone on Butt day.

[Drago156]

Honestly, I feel Fridays being days where mentors have access to HoS is the best, because it allows mentors to have a day to test the job out every week and allows them to consider applying for HoS, however, making it open to ALL mentors EVERY day would be a shit idea, just because someone is a mentor doesn't mean they are A. Robust and a competent security personnel B. They are necessarily trustworthy or able to handle the role without being completely strict and kinda un-fun and C. Not shit.

[Technature]

Funnier idea: Enable HOS for everyone on Butt day.

I would be down for HoS allowed for everyone on the 13th.

Everyone expects you to be an asshole, and there are much worse things than a crazy security officer with a flamethrower running around setting people on fire.

[Frank_Stein]

Idea: The first person picked as Sec during a round is designated Jr. HoS

They don't get anything extra, but they do get a fancy badge and the same headset as a HoS, and in the absence of a real HoS are considered the voice of Sec

[Huff H Law]

I don't understand the objection "It'd make people lose respect for the HoS"

Can anyone explain why respect for HoS's is important?

[Frank_Stein]

I don't understand the objection "It'd make people lose respect for the HoS"

Can anyone explain why respect for HoS's is important?

I think, what people are getting at, is that because it's a job that you have to apply for there's a certain degree of trust in the person since more people cared enough to approve them rather than reject them. Which hopefully means that a player in the HoS role won't abuse their position or the unspoken authority they command.

I don't necessarily agree with that position, but I do think it has merit. That said, mentors have a degree of trust placed in them as well, so I'm not against lowering the restrictions either.

[Drago156]

Maybe making like Monday and Wednesday when mentors can be HoS on top of Friday?
I don't think allowing all mentors to have full HoS power all the time to be a really good idea.
I honestly don't know much else that you could do as a resolution other then keep it as is or lower the requirement in order to be HoS.