Security - The Thread

[Technature]

I'm interested in the idea of a brig-less security that got mentioned in another thread. It really isn't fun to sit in a cell nor to babysit someone there.

I think it's worth brainstorming ideas related to keeping people out and about but under Sec scrutiny

The brig is a form of punishment for committing crimes.  I know this is just a game, but being sent to jail shouldn't be a fun experience.

Personally, anytime I babysit the brig, I go on Security record duty and set suspicious people to arrest.

[Nnystyxx]

I just looked at the Cog1 brig and holy fuck security in that thing is poop. You can just smash those windows out in no time with throwing, and if the exit alarm is barely noticeable, what the fuck is the point of having one

[Technature]

I just looked at the Cog1 brig and holy fuck security in that thing is poop. You can just smash those windows out in no time with throwing, and if the exit alarm is barely noticeable, what the fuck is the point of having one

Each of my last three security rounds involved someone breaking out cause they took the nearest chair and slammed it into the windows, and it's common for people to break out the northern window without anyone noticing.

A maximum security brig isn't necessary, but holy shit this is amazing.  In the worst way possible.

[Sundance]

Yeah cog1 brig is a special thing of making your securities role feel hated from the get-go. There was a weird mentality back then that even questioning it's layout branded you as an unfun Nazi.
I'll give Photoshop a whirl tonight to see if I can offer a redesign that lends some ideas from cog2

[Frank_Stein]

I'm interested in the idea of a brig-less security that got mentioned in another thread. It really isn't fun to sit in a cell nor to babysit someone there.

I think it's worth brainstorming ideas related to keeping people out and about but under Sec scrutiny

The brig is a form of punishment for committing crimes.  I know this is just a game, but being sent to jail shouldn't be a fun experience.

Personally, anytime I babysit the brig, I go on Security record duty and set suspicious people to arrest.

I disagree, it should be fun for the most amount of players. Locking someone in the brig takes them away from the action. A punishment where they are still out and about, and privy to getting dunked on by people that want to shame them for their crimes, that's a lot more intresting then sending someone to a penalty box for a few minutes

---

Which isn't to say I don't think there should be any brig at all, I just think the idea of public humiliation as punishment is more suited for this game

[Nnystyxx]

Yeah cog1 brig is a special thing of making your securities role feel hated from the get-go. There was a weird mentality back then that even questioning it's layout branded you as an unfun Nazi.
I'll give Photoshop a whirl tonight to see if I can offer a redesign that lends some ideas from cog2

No wonder Security culture is fucking busted. The main part of Security back on the previous-now-current map is absolutely worthless in its function.
I would love to see your reinterpretation of it.

[Sundance]

To reiterate: the brig serves the purpose as respite from the person jailed. Its really a healing process and a preventative: allows people/the station to be fixed up in the time the player is in there.


On other servers, its a powerful deterrent. You DONT want to be in there. As a result committing crimes feels far more exciting because of cause and effect. 

When you take away the bite that is the brig, things become a little stale. We need to strike a balance between whacky and functional for the brig.

[Ed Venture]

I'm interested in the idea of a brig-less security that got mentioned in another thread. It really isn't fun to sit in a cell nor to babysit someone there.

I think it's worth brainstorming ideas related to keeping people out and about but under Sec scrutiny

The brig is a form of punishment for committing crimes.  I know this is just a game, but being sent to jail shouldn't be a fun experience.

Personally, anytime I babysit the brig, I go on Security record duty and set suspicious people to arrest.

I disagree, it should be fun for the most amount of players. Locking someone in the brig takes them away from the action. A punishment where they are still out and about, and privy to getting dunked on by people that want to shame them for their crimes, that's a lot more intresting then sending someone to a penalty box for a few minutes

---

Which isn't to say I don't think there should be any brig at all, I just think the idea of public humiliation as punishment is more suited for this game

I disagree if someone commits a crime and then they get caught they should not be rewarded with a fun activity and humiliations and trials still happen from time to time. I mean I try to humiliate Traitors if I can, I don't attempt to do Trials anymore cause the crew has never once tried to play along when I try so I gave up on that forever.

[Frank_Stein]

Okay. So let's say an antagonist doesn't want to get sent to the brig because it's boring. What do you think they're going to do?

Probably suicide. Great job, you've eliminated a player from the game.

Or, maybe they just don't do anything at all. Now we've got an unofficial extended round.

You guys can talk about how much you miss cracking skulls, but don't be surprised when you've created boring rounds for yourselves

[Ed Venture]

Okay. So let's say an antagonist doesn't want to get sent to the brig because it's boring. What do you think they're going to do?

Probably suicide. Great job, you've eliminated a player from the game.

Or, maybe they just don't do anything at all. Now we've got an unofficial extended round.

You guys can talk about how much you miss cracking skulls, but don't be surprised when you've created boring rounds for yourselves

If they suicide then I don't care. Shows how stupid they are honestly that they rather wait over a hour to play again then wait five minutes at most. I even go the extra mile and gib the bodies of people who suicide when arrested or I'll clone them just to arrest them again to spite them cause they never did their time.

I'm going to be honest I kill most of the antags I catch because I can and it's fun for me though I try to at least wait till they commit a crime before taking action. That and a Antag that kills will kill again given the chance.

I Don't miss cracking skulls I still do it once a round.

What you just listed would be a issue if late-joining traitors were not a thing and if none join then oh well there will be more rounds to play. I can keep myself entertained by interacting with the crew and writing people tickets and fines.

All in all don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

[Frank_Stein]

Honestly, I think that kind of mentality is why Sec has a bad reputation, and why I'm so skeptical of all the arguments made for strengthening security.

And late round antags just mean waiting about 20 to 40 minutes for them to show up because you've spaced some guy trying to run a gimmick because of borderline valid hunting

[Ed Venture]

Honestly, I think that kind of mentality is why Sec has a bad reputation, and why I'm so skeptical of all the arguments made for strengthening security.

Yet I constantly get told I am a great HoS by admins and people in deadchat so I guess this boils down to "opinions" I was agreeing with you till you started saying you wanted to reward criminals with fun activities. Crime should never be rewarded. Also thanks for not responding to any of the points I made. I mean does it make any real sense that anyone should care if someone suicides over five minutes at most? I mean I might be crazy but forcing yourself to wait a hour to play again cause you have to stand still for a short amount of time sounds really stupid.

Honestly, I think that kind of mentality is why Sec has a bad reputation, and why I'm so skeptical of all the arguments made for strengthening security.

And late round antags just mean waiting about 20 to 40 minutes for them to show up because you've spaced some guy trying to run a gimmick because of borderline valid hunting

Yeah security gets a bad rap cause the players who play it think people who do bad things so be punished. Fuck them right?

Also I can tell you never read my post on antag hunting in the recent past as I've stated that if I catch a antag and they have not done anything or they are caught in the first five minutes I leave them be. Nor have you seen me play the role before cause again you are making wild assumptions about what I do in a one hour round again.

[Superlagg]

I'm interested in the idea of a brig-less security that got mentioned in another thread. It really isn't fun to sit in a cell nor to babysit someone there.

I think it's worth brainstorming ideas related to keeping people out and about but under Sec scrutiny

The brig is a form of punishment for committing crimes.  I know this is just a game, but being sent to jail shouldn't be a fun experience.

Personally, anytime I babysit the brig, I go on Security record duty and set suspicious people to arrest.

I disagree, it should be fun for the most amount of players. Locking someone in the brig takes them away from the action. A punishment where they are still out and about, and privy to getting dunked on by people that want to shame them for their crimes, that's a lot more intresting then sending someone to a penalty box for a few minutes

---

Which isn't to say I don't think there should be any brig at all, I just think the idea of public humiliation as punishment is more suited for this game

I disagree if someone commits a crime and then they get caught they should not be rewarded with a fun activity.

Make a habit of this and they'll reward your dutiful policework with a braindead human and one less player on the server. If I wanted to sit in a room and not play the game, I'd save myself a few bucks and turn off the computer.

Cops and robbers is a big part of this game, but so is making a fun story. Sure, punishment is a vital part of the antag-protag dynamic, but it really ought to lend itself to furthering the shift's improvised narrative in a non-boring way.

Remember that behind every shitty crimer is a considerably less shitty human being who came to this shitty game to do something shitty interesting. We aren't trying to raise a family; conflict is interesting, and it shouldn't be viewed as something that shouldn't be rewarded -- punishment +is+ the reward we give the player for giving us something to do.

One time, I cargoported a cop into space and got caught. Instead of being sent to my room to think about what I did, the rest of sec stripped me, locked me in a crate, and exiled my ass (and everything attached) to the Hemera. A fitting punishment that drew my antag round to an end and rewarded me, the player, for giving sec a badguy to catch.

What we need is to have more options for punishment that are punishing to the character, but not so much to the player. Exile is great, as is borging or getting slapped into a coma by the crew. It's a fine line sec ought to be aware of, since you can make the game suck just as much, if not moreso, than a badguy.

[Sundance]

Okay. So let's say an antagonist doesn't want to get sent to the brig because it's boring. What do you think they're going to do?

Probably suicide. Great job, you've eliminated a player from the game. 

Or, maybe they just don't do anything at all. Now we've got an unofficial extended round.

You guys can talk about how much you miss cracking skulls, but don't be surprised when you've created boring rounds for yourselves 

Keep on topic guys.
A guy suiciding when caught is a culture issue. Its poor behavior on their part and part shortsighted part not having a plan b
Look I'm not saying have a Gestapo here nor am I saying that security shouldn't have alternatives. If you read my first post, I state that I'd like more punishments that can be done outside the brig in general.
Let's look at cog 2 genpop. I'm of the opinion that it's both too secure and too easy to break out of. Firstly on your own, unless you have tools or tampered with it prior, your stuck. But if there's two people I'm there, you can break out very quickly if not noticed, by table flipping. A remedy to that would be for it to have an alarm as you'd be very quickly noticed, but your still fucked if your brigged on your own.

Now now look at cog 1 genpop. You can break out in a very short time to the left, either disposaling yourself or you could be extra cheeky and break another window and steal a pod. Above there's a risky option of going north and doing belt hell, you'd live if you barcode yourself and use some meds.
Below is 3 tiles away from a disposal but its in sec main. To the right if you have 2 people you can tableflip yourself to freedom in a very short time

So where's the happy medium? Cog2 has one method of escape (with only 2 people) while Cog1 has 4. 

I think a brig breakout needs to be exciting, and somewhat lengthy. I'm think at least 2 if not a creative third methods of breaking out is required, but it needs to be fresh and it shouldn't be easy.

[Frank_Stein]

Players who do "bad things" are people doing the role the game assigned to them. A role that's supposed to give the round a challenge.

I agree with Sundance, Sec is supposed to provide breathing room for places and people hit by them to recover, so they can be hit again. We had a whole thing about this years ago, and the consensus seemed to be Sec is supposed to be the shield, not the sword. It's how I've been running Sec, and I've never had a problem with being harassed in rounds since adjusting my play style that way.